Discussion in 'Windows Vista Security' started by Julsie, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. In my use/testing of it, it has not turned on the red shield?

    Susan Bradley, Feb 26, 2008
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  2. Julsie

    Kayman Guest

    So you actually have more than one(1) real-time A-S running? ....the mind
    Kayman, Feb 26, 2008
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  3. Julsie

    Kayman Guest

    Maybe, but you didn't understand the content.
    Kayman, Feb 26, 2008
  4. Julsie

    Bob Guest

    No, I only run WD in real-time and periodically do a scan with others.
    Bob, Feb 26, 2008
  5. Julsie

    Bob Guest

    Thank you, my reading comprehension is more than adequate.
    Bob, Feb 26, 2008
  6. Julsie

    Paul Smith Guest

    So what if for example, one of your games that you're running with full
    rights has a security vulnerability? That gets exploited and as a result
    the entire box is compromised.

    Or the game runs as standard user, and the amount of damage the
    vulnerability can cause is much reduced - and at this moment it time,
    whatever code was being used to make the exploit simply breaks because it
    was expecting admin rights.

    Common sense really.

    Paul Smith,
    Yeovil, UK.
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.

    *Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*
    Paul Smith, Feb 26, 2008
  7. Julsie

    Bob Guest

    I don't have any games installed. In any event, I'm comfortable using AV, AS
    and firewall.

    It's your choice and mine whether or not we want to deal with UAC prompts.
    My choice is to disable the prompts.
    Bob, Feb 26, 2008
  8. Julsie

    Paul Smith Guest

    Fine, miss the point entirely.

    Let me rephrase, your web browser has a vulnerability, your calculator has a
    vulnerability, your e-mail client has a vulnerability or any other
    application on the system *for example*. As you're running those as an
    administrator, your AV your firewall you name it can be turned off, as the
    malicious code is running as an administrator.

    If those applications were running as standard user, they don't have the
    authority to turn the services off, nor go and make any system-wide changes.

    Paul Smith,
    Yeovil, UK.
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.

    *Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*
    Paul Smith, Feb 26, 2008
  9. Julsie

    Mark Guest

    You're living in paranoia.
    What if a meteor strikes? What if...

    Yes, there is bad stuff out there. A little common sense goes a long way.
    Make a backup.
    Mark, Feb 27, 2008
  10. Julsie

    Bob Guest

    "Microsoft and paranoid types will tell you that disabling UAC is a bad
    idea, but I don't buy the argument. Serious security threats install
    themselves under the radar and behind the scenes. It shouldn't take user
    intervention to stop them, and in fact, I've never seen or heard of UAC
    actually stopping spyware or a virus from being installed, and many sources
    note that UAC can't stop everything. Turning off UAC will theoretically
    reduce the security level of your computer, but if you're running antivirus
    and anti-spyware software like a good PC citizen, the only thing you'll
    notice is blissful freedom from those annoying messages."

    Christopher Null
    Bob, Feb 27, 2008
  11. Julsie

    Paul Smith Guest

    You mean a meteorite, a meteor doesn't strike anything apart from an
    When you're dealing with a user base measured in the hundreds of millions
    the "bad stuff" is happening to people all the time. Not caring, or
    dismissing it as paranoia because statistically it is unlikely to happen to
    any specific individual is nothing less than self-centered.
    What good does that do? Even if you notice the intrusion straight away it
    can take a couple of hours to re-image a machine. The big money nowadays
    comes from maintaining botnets, the way you maintain a botnet is by hiding
    the fact the system is compromised for as long as possible, I know people
    who have had their machines compromised for months without them knowing
    about it - contributing to spam and exploiting more machines.

    The biggest selling point of NT is the standard user, and its about time
    that it is used properly.

    Paul Smith,
    Yeovil, UK.
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.

    *Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*
    Paul Smith, Feb 27, 2008
  12. Julsie

    Mark Guest

    Guess I should go buy a lottery ticket.

    It's not protection if I must decide every time that the prompt is expected.
    Would you buy an antivirus program that asked you every time it scanned a
    file if it was a virus?

    I understand the need in a work space where people expect the company to
    protect them from being idiots.
    And the use of credentials substantially improves the idea of UAC.
    But, I know my home computer, what I use it for and find no need for this

    Self-centered would be those that force this method upon us and deem it good
    for all.
    Yes, it can be turned off, but only if you're willing to turn off the
    security center prompts, IE protected mode and be willing to find that fewer
    programs work because off isn't really off, but a compatibility mode.

    Sorry, I just don't buy that it's protection when the number one response is
    to simply learn to ignore it and hit Continue.
    Mark, Feb 27, 2008
  13. Julsie

    Mark Guest

    Amen, brother!
    Preach it.

    Mark, Feb 27, 2008
  14. Julsie

    Paul Smith Guest

    Argument from authority (and not a very good one at that).

    If an application only has standard user rights, it can't write to system
    locations despite whatever Mr Null (who I've never heard of) says about it.

    A vulnerability for example in Firefox (IE runs even lower than a standard
    user), which is running as a standard user will do two things if a malicious
    piece of code tries to alter system locations 1) fail or 2) ask for

    There's no secret stuff changing the system when UAC is on and in its
    default configuration. UAC is more than just an annoying message. That's
    what the malware writers don't want you to understand.

    Paul Smith,
    Yeovil, UK.
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.

    *Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*
    Paul Smith, Feb 27, 2008
  15. You have access to the box. But software doesn't need to have full

    And let's see didn't we complain that XP got nailed with malware?

    Apple and Ubuntu have a password prompt and a SUDO respectively. They
    too have big brother looking out for their users. So what's the difference?
    Susan Bradley, Feb 27, 2008
  16. So my security advice should come from a guy who started the web site
    Susan Bradley, Feb 27, 2008
  17. Julsie

    benedito78 Guest

    "Microsoft and paranoid types will tell you that disabling UAC is a bad
    Linux and Apple fudbots, internet criminals, "security software" companies,
    competitors, etc... will all tell you disabling UAC is a good thing, they
    all have something to gain from it.
    Not if they don't have the proper privilege, the last item that has ever
    been installed "under the radar and behind the scenes" on any of my Windows
    machines was a drive-by malware install in 2003 on a fully patched XP with a
    fully up to date Norton Internet Security. This great piece of "security"
    software did nothing to stop the malware install and was unable to remove it
    afterwards. Incidentally, that was the last time I ever ran with
    Administrator account in my normal activities and I've not had an incident
    since. I frequently visit phishing pages, trojan downloader pages,
    javascript exploit pages in the course of my job. IE protected mode, file
    and registry virtualization and UAC have made life easier, no desire for a
    3rd party sandbox for my browser now, since that is essentially what
    protected mode does. No more having to type in my Administrator password
    using runas (or sudo for you non Windows folks).
    I like having control of my computer, I'll take the occasional pop up, I
    don't view it as an annoyance but rather a very convenient way to elevate
    privilege for a specific action or program.
    Who are these sources, are they credible? Where is the evidence, is there
    Flip flop flip flop... So if the writer never heard of UAC actually
    stopping spyware or a virus from being installed and there are many sources
    to back this up, how will turning off UAC theoretically reduce the security
    level of your computer?
    While quality antivirus and antispyware are part of the security process, it
    is just that, a process. Unless you are still running a pre release of
    Vista, you are not seeing a large number of these UAC popups.
    Christopher Null is a columnist and blogger for Yahoo! Tech...
    Ah, nothing like taking security advice sponsored by a major competitor of
    benedito78, Feb 27, 2008
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