Unallocated space in vista Premium 64 bit and Local Policy question.

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by vista_vixen, Aug 22, 2008.

  1. vista_vixen

    vista_vixen Guest

    HP Pavilion dv9700 Entertainment Laptop
    Amd Turion X2
    4 GB memory
    SP1

    Hit wrong key now have 12.96 Unallocated space

    Cannot delete or merge as I have the allowed 4 partitions :mad:
    I know some do not recommend partitions, but I do, because when
    there is a mess up .. then I can reload and start over and still have
    my
    files and programs.
    If I get Ultimate will I be able to delete the Unallocated one when I
    am loading
    Ultimate ... I know I will have to delete other partitions or think so.
    or will I be able to do this using Simply Mepis for 64 bit.
    Is there any other method?
    I am going to purchase Ultimate anyway so I can get local policy.
    but just wanted to know what is available.

    RE Local Policy ... is there info on how to use it so I will be able to
    see
    and delete things in hidden files and other folders and use my computer
    like it is mine.
    Thanks.

    vv.
     
    vista_vixen, Aug 22, 2008
    #1
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  2. vista_vixen

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Vixen.

    Since you are coming to us (here in the
    microsoft.public.windows.vista.general newsgroup on the Microsoft public
    news server) from some unidentified "forum" via the vBulletin USENET
    gateway, there's a very good chance that we're not getting your whole story.
    That "forum" relays messages to and from the MS server and posts often get
    delayed or out of sequence or just plain lost. (You can cut out the
    middleman and come here directly by clicking:
    news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.vista.general . It's
    free and does not require you to log in.)

    While you didn't say so, you apparently are using Vista's Disk Management
    utility. It's included in ALL versions of Vista (and WinXP and Win2K), so
    you don't necessarily need Ultimate. You didn't tell us which version you
    are running, but it has Disk Management. As you probably know, there are
    several ways to get to it, but my favorite is to just press Start, type
    diskmgmt.msc, and press Enter. Then I Maximize it so that I don't feel like
    I'm working through a keyhole.

    Disk Management is THE tool for creating, deleting, formatting and otherwise
    managing "drives" or "volumes", including partitions on HDD, optical drives,
    USB flash drives, digital cameras...anything that can be assigned a "drive
    letter".

    The Vista version added the ability to Shrink Volume; it could be that's how
    you got that 12.96 Unallocated Space. Now that you have it, you can do any
    of several things with it, your choice:
    1. Leave it Unallocated...you may find a use for it later.
    2. Create a partition or logical drive with all or part of it, format it
    and assign a letter (and a label - this will get written to the HD and won't
    change, even if the drive letter changes).
    3. Click on the partition immediately before this space and Extend volume
    to add all or part of it to that contiguous volume.
    4. Whatever other use you might think of.
    There's no limit to how many volumes you can have - until you run out of
    letters in the English alphabet, at which time you'll have to switch to GPT
    drives - but don't ask me about that subject!

    We've always been limited to 4 partitions because there's room for only four
    16-byte entries in the 64-byte partition table in the Master Boot Record.
    But one of those 4 could be an extended partition, in which we could create
    as many logical drives as we like and assign each a drive letter. That's
    the system I've used for a decade or more: 1 primary partition plus
    multiple logical drives in an extended partition covering the rest of the
    HD. Vista has made a small change in HOW we do it, but still allows many
    more than 4 "volumes" on each HD. Study the Help file from Disk Management;
    you'll see that it's arranged for reference, not as a tutorial, so you can't
    just read through it like a textbook.
    No idea what this is.
    I haven't needed this. If I did, I might look in Help and Support - or ask
    Google.

    Rather than vista.general, you might get more-focused help for this question
    in:
    news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
     
    R. C. White, Aug 22, 2008
    #2
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  3. vista_vixen

    vista_vixen Guest

    To R. C. White.

    Vista home Premium 64 bit.
    Thanks for replying RC.
    Yes I am using Vista's Disk Management utility. I do not have the
    option of extending the volume as extend volume is grayed out in all
    partitions. I also do not have any options whatever to adjust the
    unallocated I have tried.
    I just noticed I have 3 primary and 1 logical. So maybe the best thing
    to do is just delate (not C) partitions and start over. The reason I
    thought about Ultimate was when installing I could get to the
    unallocated one but I also do want the advantage of Local Policy.

    I have not been able to reply because I was away for several days and
    when I came home found that my ISP had unplugged internet and our phone
    ...
    and that one is a mystery to us and them. I think someone made a
    mistake but of course that will not be admitted. So internet was off for
    6 days and then it took several days and four tries to get email.

    I do appreciate your suggestions and will try to work out the problems.

    Also thanks for the links as I could not find my post.

    VV.
     
    vista_vixen, Sep 4, 2008
    #3
  4. vista_vixen

    vista_vixen Guest

    PS to above post

    I bought a new laptop with Vista Premium 64 bit
    this is the one with the problem
    Other one is Vista Ultimate 32 bit deskto
    whick is good so far
    No problems with those partitions

    :cool
    VV
     
    vista_vixen, Sep 4, 2008
    #4
  5. vista_vixen

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, VV.
    Bummer! Glad you're back online. ;<)
    This usually means that there is no CONTIGUOUS unallocated space FOLLOWING
    the volume that you want to extend. The Extend Volume command doesn't like
    jumping over volumes to find more unallocated space.

    Sometimes we can work around that problem by temporarily backing up - or
    moving - the contents of an intervening volume. Then we can delete that
    volume and Extend the immediately-preceding volume into some or all of the
    vacated space. If we don't use all of that space with the extension, we can
    re-create the deleted volume there and restore its data. This all depends
    on the specifics of your hard drive, of course: how big is it; how many
    volumes are there, how big are they and how full are they; and other such
    details. You'll need to "draw us a picture" of that drive, or send us a
    "snip" of the Graphical view of it from Disk Management.
    No, we can't directly "adjust" the unallocated space. All we can do is
    delete volumes to create more unallocated space, or create volumes in the
    existing allocated space.

    RC
     
    R. C. White, Sep 4, 2008
    #5
  6. vista_vixen

    vista_vixen Guest

    Thank you .. I'm happy to be back.

    (Sometimes we can work around that problem by temporarily backing up -
    or
    moving - the contents of an intervening volume. Then we can delete
    that
    volume and Extend the immediately-preceding volume into some or all of
    the
    vacated space. If we don't use all of that space with the extension,
    we can
    re-create the deleted volume there and restore its data.)

    I have done this and am happy to report it has worked.
    Why I did not do this before .. when I clicked on said partition to
    delete .. a pop up
    explained if I choose to do so I would not be able to access it. Just
    the language
    that threw me off.

    So now all is well.

    I appreciate your help very much RC.

    VV. :cool:
     
    vista_vixen, Sep 5, 2008
    #6
  7. vista_vixen

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, VV.

    I'm glad it worked. ;<)

    Thanks for the feedback. It gives us more confidence in what to recommend
    for the next user with a similar problem.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
     
    R. C. White, Sep 5, 2008
    #7
  8. vista_vixen

    compuchris Guest

    Hello, I've just joined. I'm a relatively new Vista user and have
    encountered problems with a split disk drive. I've been reading all that
    has been said already and it has helped me to understand....somewhat. My
    problem is that my system drive C is over three quarters full and I'm
    about to do a big chunk of work. D drive is empty (it's called Data) but
    I don't know how to save to it or what to save it it. Sorry to sound so
    dumb. I've had plenty of computers but all have worked with just one
    drive, or at least one section! I tried shrinking the D drive by 25000
    to see what happens, but it has left me with unallocated space. Neither
    C nor D will allow the unallocated space in... neither will expand. I
    really don't mind having separate drives, but how do I put my normal
    files (documents, photographs, music, etc.) into D and still be able to
    access them from start menu, photo gallery, etc? In order to resolve
    this unallocated space - if I empty D and somehow close it down, can I
    then reallocate the unallocated space as D?

    Help would be MOST appreciated.

    Compuchris (just Chris for short)

    ps I hope you understand this - I'm not sure I do!!!
     
    compuchris, Sep 8, 2008
    #8
  9. vista_vixen

    Ringmaster Guest

    First do you have one or more physical hard drives? It is common if
    you bought a ready build system to have a single drive spilt into two
    partitions, each having it's own drive letter, typically C & D.

    Unallocated space on a hard drive is space not assigned to any
    partition. It can be used, but it needs to be "given" to a partition
    you already have or made into an additional one. While you can do it
    from within Vista, (Control Panel Administrative, Computer Management,
    Disk Management) the method is clumsy and frankly I don't trust it.
    Much better off and easier using a third party application that
    specializes in this. Be sure it supports Vista if you get one. Some
    only work with older versions of the NTFS.

    As far as saving files to a different drive or partition it is a
    simple matter of directing the files there. Most every Windows based
    application ASKS you WHERE you want to save files. Such a option
    should be under File, save as, then you simply select where from the
    tree menu. You can copy and/or move files manually by going to Windows
    Explorer, selecting the files, then right click and either copy and
    paste or move and paste. You can select a whole folder at once or
    multiple files in a folder by holding down the Ctrl key as you left
    click on the files you want to move. This allows you to skip over
    files. If you want a whole bunch, while holding down the Shift key
    select the first and ending file then copy or move.
     
    Ringmaster, Sep 8, 2008
    #9
  10. vista_vixen

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Chris.

    A good place to expand your knowledge about computer hard drives is the
    built-in utility called Disk Management. It's a part (officially called a
    "snap-in", although we don’t hear that term a lot in everyday usage) of
    Microsoft Management Console. To get to Disk Management through the MMC,
    right-click on Computer and then click Manage; Disk Management is under
    Storage. But this approach to DM always makes me feel like I'm working
    through a keyhole, so I just press Start, type diskmgmt.msc, and press
    Enter, then Maximize the window so I can see what I'm doing. DM has an
    excellent Help file, although it has two drawbacks for me (and probably for
    you): It's written as a reference, not a tutorial, so we can't just read it
    from start to finish. And it spends way too much time discussing things
    that are over the heads of us one-computer guys, such as dynamic disks and
    GPT file systems. Still, there's a lot there for us; if you invest a few
    hours in this help file, you will learn more than most computer users have
    learned in years.

    It helps to get the jargon straight so that we all understand each other. A
    physical disk drive is numbered, not lettered, starting with Disk 0. Each
    disk (often abbreviated HD for hard disk or HDD for hard disk drive) must be
    divided into "partitions" (not "sections"), each of which must be assigned a
    "drive" letter and formatted so that files can be written to it - and so
    that the files can be found and read back later. A "drive" letter is not
    assigned to a physical drive, but to a "volume", which can be either a
    primary partition or a logical drive in an extended partition. Even if a
    physical drive contains only a single partition which covers the entire
    disk, the "drive" letter refers to the partition, not to the physical disk.
    The terms "drive", "partition" and "volume" are often used interchangeably -
    but their meaning is not always interchangeable. :<{

    As you will see in the Graphical View of Disk Management, "unallocated
    space" (sometimes referred to as "free space") is outside any volume. This
    space is available to be included in a newly-created volume, or to be added
    to the preceding volume (to its left in this view) by using the Extend
    Volume command on that preceding volume. The "Shrink volume" command always
    removes empty space from the end (the "right" end) of the volume, leaving
    free space immediately following the shrunken volume, as you see following
    your Drive D:. You can use that 25,000 MB (roughly equal to 25 GB) in at
    least a couple of ways. You can Extend Drive D: by any amount up to the
    full 25,000 MB. Or you can create a new volume and name it Drive E: or
    Drive X: or whatever letter you choose that is not already in use. You can
    even create multiple smaller volumes to use up the full 25 GB, if you like.

    How many volumes do you need? That question will get you many answers
    because we all use our computers in our own different ways. Some (most?)
    experts and other users recommend a single partition for everything. Some
    of us (like me) have a dozen or more volumes; many of mine were created when
    I was beta testing Vista and this let me delete a beta volume when the next
    version came along. Users who are "dual-booting" will need at least two
    volumes, one for each operating system. It seems logical, but not always
    practical, to have one volume for startup files, another for the operating
    system, a third for applications and a fourth for data. Only YOU can decide
    which is the right number of volumes for you. The neat thing about Disk
    Management is that your first decision need not be final. You can delete
    and recreate volumes as your needs change.

    Good luck!

    By the way, you posted using VistaHeads, which relayed your post to the
    Microsoft public news server, where I am reading it. If you'd like to "cut
    out the middleman" and access the MS newsgroups directly, just click here:
    news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.vista.general

    The MS server is free and does not require you to log on.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
     
    R. C. White, Sep 8, 2008
    #10
  11. vista_vixen

    compuchris Guest

    Many, many thanks. I now understand. I've found the help file, but must
    say I prefer your explanation! I will log on to site you recommend.
    Tonight I will sleep easier. This has been bugging me for days.

    Thanks muchly, you're a star

    Chris (compuchris)
     
    compuchris, Sep 9, 2008
    #11
  12. vista_vixen

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Chris.

    Aw, shucks! 'Twarn't nuthin'. ;<)

    But I'm glad it helped. Thanks for the feedback.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
     
    R. C. White, Sep 9, 2008
    #12
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