upgrade c: from pata to sata with vista ultimate 64bit upgrade dis

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Hardware' started by misskali, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. misskali

    misskali Guest

    my c: is a pata drive - i bought a new sata drive and i want to swap them. i
    have done a complete computer back up on a different drive but my vista
    ultimate disc is an upgrade disc (from xp) and so its not working. any
    suggestions?
     
    misskali, Jul 8, 2008
    #1
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  2. misskali

    DL Guest

    I assume you dont have a genuine MS winxp disk?
    Forget the complete backup, use the utility supplied on your hd site to copy
    the old drive to the new or use a third party imaging app eg Acronis -
    Ensure you follow the instructions *explicitly*
     
    DL, Jul 8, 2008
    #2
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  3. misskali

    misskali Guest

    i do have a genuine xp disc but i dont really want to install xp on my new
    drive just to upgrade it a second later - i dont understand how the disc
    would help...
     
    misskali, Jul 8, 2008
    #3
  4. The problem is that if you are using x86 Vista the upgrade product key will
    require you to install from within a running copy of Windows. That means
    there has to be a running Windows like XP.

    You will have windows.old folders to take ownership of and delete when you
    are done, but otherwise the result will be just like a clean install.

    There is a widely know workaround but it is not supported by MS and you
    don't want to get crossways over licensing. I assume the XP license is the
    one you are retiring in order to use the Vista upgrade so reinstalling XP
    should not make a lot of difference.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 9, 2008
    #4

  5. The easiest way to handle this is to install Vista x64 and leave out the
    serial when prompted. Then choose the version you have from the list and
    finish install. Next, you need to change the serial number by left click on
    the START button, then right click on Computer, and left click on Change
    Product Key under Windows Activation.

    Wayne
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 10, 2008
    #5

  6. P.S. I left out that you need to boot from the VISTA DVD.
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 10, 2008
    #6
  7. He cannot do that. Change Product Key will not work unless a product key
    has previously been entered.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2008
    #7
  8. Also, when he installs without a product key a full edition is installed.
    He does not have a full edition product key.

    He enters the product key by starting the activation process. The
    activation wizard asks for a product key. He is using an upgrade product
    key and when he enters it he will receive a message that the product key
    entered cannot be used with the product installed. He would then have to
    reinstall using the upgrade pk.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2008
    #8
  9. Correction:

    I just saw the "64bit" in the subject line.

    You must reinstall XP so that when you boot with the 64bit dvd and enter the
    upgrade product key Vista x64 Setup will find an existing Windows eligible
    for upgrade to Vista. It scans quickly after which you will no longer need
    the XP installation and can either perform a Custom install or you can use
    the disk tools to delete the XP partition and create a new one and then do
    the custom install. I recommend the latter.

    The workaround referred to by Wayne is a 32bit workaround because of the
    different way Vista x86 Setup works from the x64 version. The problem Wayne
    is aware of does not exist in Vista x64 upgrade scenarios.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2008
    #9

  10. http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 11, 2008
    #10
  11. For those that are too lazy to click on the link I provided:


    "How to Clean Install Windows Vista with Upgrade Media


    When I began inquiring into various Windows Vista installation options
    late last year, Microsoft and its representative grew quiet and seemed to
    begin selectively answering my questions. Previously, Microsoft had said
    that Vista's upgrade experience would be similar to that of XP: You'd be
    able to perform an in-place upgrade using the Vista Upgrade media or, with
    qualifying media (i.e. a Windows 2000 or XP CD-ROM), you could use the
    Upgrade media to perform a clean install. When rumors began surfacing that
    Vista Upgrade versions would not support clean installs, however, a veil of
    silence descended over Redmond.

    These rumors grew louder as Vista's broad release date of January 30, 2007
    approached. Then, finally, Microsoft dropped the bomb: The weekend before
    Vista's launch, the company quietly posted a support note on its Web site
    ominously titled Upgrade installation keys are blocked when you start from
    the Windows Vista DVD, Microsoft explains: "Windows Vista does not check
    upgrade compliance. You cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean
    installation of Windows Vista." The support note recommends that users who
    run into this issue first install a compliant version of Windows first (i.e.
    Windows 2000, XP, or Vista) and then run Setup from within that install,
    upgrading the OS to the new version. Or, you could simply purchase a Full
    Product license. Hey, there's some great advice.

    The reaction in the Windows community was predictably swift and damning.
    Clearly, Microsoft was disabling this previously handy option in order to
    inconvenience users (at best) or force them to spend more money on a Full
    product version (at worst). Either way, the company had pulled a fast one,
    silently taking away a feature we had all come to know and expect.

    Well, it turns out that Windows Vista Upgrade media can indeed be used to
    perform a clean install of the operating system, at least sort of. Using an
    undocumented workaround which I first revealed in WinInfo Daily UPDATE
    earlier this week, you can fool any Upgrade version of Windows Vista into
    installing itself on a PC without upgrading a previous OS install.

    Here's how it works.
    Step 1: Install Windows Vista

    Boot your PC with the Windows Vista Upgrade DVD. After the preliminary
    loading screen, click the Install Now button to trigger Vista Setup. In the
    next screen, you normally enter your product key. However, there's a
    little-known trick in Windows Vista Setup whereby you can simply skip this
    phase and use the install media (Upgrade or Full, any version) to perform a
    clean install of virtually any Vista product edition. What you do is leave
    the Product Key field blank, deselect the option titled "Automatically
    activate Windows when I'm online," and then click Next. Vista Setup will ask
    you whether you would like to enter your Product Key before continuing.
    Click No.

    In the next Setup screen, you'll be presented with a list of the Windows
    Vista product editions you can install. This list may vary from locale to
    locale, but in the US, you'll see Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business,
    Ultimate, and some N editions. Choose the product edition you actually own.
    You'll be asked to verify that you've chosen the correct version. Do so to
    continue past the End User License Agreement (EULA) screen.

    In the next screen, you select the type of install. Choose Custom (Advanced)
    instead of Upgrade. Next, you choose the partition to which to install
    Windows Vista. If you need to format the disk, select the Drive options
    (advanced) option to do so and then continue.

    Now, Setup copies the Vista install image to your PC, expands it, and
    installs Windows. This phase of Setup should take about 15 to 20 minutes and
    trigger at least one reboot. When Vista is installed, you'll step through
    the penultimate phase of Setup in which you enter, in succession, your user
    name and password, computer name, and the date, time, and time zone. Then
    Setup runs its final task, a performance test that could take about 5
    minutes. If everything goes well, and you're running fairly modern hardware,
    you should hit the Welcome screen and, after logging on, the new Vista
    desktop less than 30 minutes after you began this process.
    Step 2: Upgrade

    What you've installed is decidedly temporary. You've got 30 days during
    which you can run this non-activated version of Windows Vista. If you try to
    activate Windows now, it will fail, because you've performed a clean install
    of Vista and you only have an Upgrade product key.

    What to do, what to do? If you read Microsoft's support note carefully, you
    will have seen that the Upgrade versions of Vista support upgrading from "a
    compliant version of Windows, such as Windows Vista, Microsoft Windows XP,
    or Microsoft Windows 2000." Well, you just installed Windows Vista, so why
    not just upgrade from this install? That's right: You're going to upgrade
    the non-activated clean install you just performed, which will provide you
    with a version of the OS that you can, in fact, activate.

    To do this, just open Computer and double click on the icon for the DVD
    drive that contains the Vista Upgrade media. Run Setup again, this time from
    within Vista. Choose Install Now, and then "Do not get the latest updates
    for installation" in the next screen. Then, in the now-familiar Product Key
    phase, enter your product key. It's on the back of the pull-out Vista
    packaging. You can choose to automatically activate Windows when online or
    not, it's your choice. In the next screen, accept the Windows EULA.

    Now, choose the Upgrade option. Windows will install as before, though you
    might notice that it takes quite a bit longer this time. (Upgrade installs
    seem to take up to 45 minutes, compared to 30 minutes or less with clean
    installs, and reboots at least one additional time.)

    Because you've just completed an upgrade install, you won't be prompted to
    enter your user name and so forth (only the time zone screen is presented).
    Instead, you'll just boot directly to the Welcome screen when the
    performance check is complete. Using the user name and password you created
    during the first install, logon to Windows.

    Once again, you have 30 days in which to activate Vista. However, this time
    activation will work: To activate Vista immediately (unless you told it to
    do so during Setup), open the Start Menu, right-click Computer, and choose
    Properties. Then, at the bottom of the System window that appears, click the
    link titled Activate Windows now.
    Is this legal?

    One might naturally wonder whether the aforementioned instructions describe
    an action that is legal or ethical. After all, anyone could purchase an
    Upgrade version of Windows Vista (therefore saving a lot of money when
    compared to a Full version) and use it to perform a clean install even if
    they don't own a previous, compliant Window version.

    After telling my "Windows Vista Secrets" coauthor Brian Livingston about
    this workaround, he wrote that using this process was indeed ethical, in his
    opinion. "Microsoft itself created the upgrade process," he wrote in a
    newsletter article describing the workaround. "The company designed Vista to
    support upgrading it over a previously installed copy of XP, W2K Pro, or
    Vista itself. This isn't a black-hat hacker exploit. It's something that's
    been deliberately programmed into the approved setup routine."

    Fair enough. Of course, if you do use this workaround to clean install Vista
    with the Upgrade media, and you don't own a previous, compliant version of
    Windows, you're most certainly violating the Windows EULA and, thus,
    breaking the law. Proceed at your own risk.
    Final thoughts

    This is an interesting and viable workaround for anyone who owns a previous
    Windows version but would like to perform a clean install of the new
    operating system on their existing hardware. While I'm a bit nervous about
    legal implications and Microsoft's ability to cut off this process in the
    future, I'm glad that innocent Windows upgraders do in fact have all the
    options that were available to them in previous Windows versions. For its
    part in this silliness, Microsoft gets a virtual slap on the wrist:
    Sometimes, it seems, the company forgets that Windows is expensive and
    paying customers should be able to easily install the new OS without taking
    on the added clutter of a previous Windows installation.

    --Paul Thurrott
    February 3, 2007"
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 11, 2008
    #11
  12. Wayne, that's all well and good but your advice to click on the Change
    Product Key link could not work because a product key had not been entered
    yet. You remember from TechBeta that the link only works to replace a pk,
    not enter the first one. If he activates and enters the upgrade pk there
    that will reject also because when he performed the keyless install a full
    edition was installed and only a full edition pk will be accepted by the
    activation wizard. The workaround can ONLY work if the upgrade pk is
    entered up front during the second (in-place-upgrade) installation.
    "The easiest way to handle this is to install Vista x64 and leave out the
    serial when prompted. Then choose the version you have from the list and
    finish install. Next, you need to change the serial number by left click on
    the START button, then right click on Computer, and left click on Change
    Product Key under Windows Activation.

    Wayne"

    The installation using the workaround would work but is not supported by MS
    PSS and he qualifies for that with his retail pk. Also, it is not clear
    from what I have been hearing from MS contacts what will happen with the
    workaround and licensing questions. It is just better if he plays by the
    book here and installs XP and then upgrades.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 11, 2008
    #12

  13. All I know is that it works, and I haven't seen a retraction by Paul
    Thurrott. And yes it still works. Many times I have installed and didn't
    enter my serial until after I had installed all drivers and programs that
    are mandatory for me, thus saving me a call to the activation center.


    Wayne
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 13, 2008
    #13
  14. P.S. Microsoft made a big mistake by not allowing clean installs after
    proving ownership of the qualifying product as they did in the past. One
    should simply be able to enter the serial of the qualifying product during
    install, and just as WPA looks at the hardware, it could verify the serial
    right after the install and if not found could disable the install. It
    doesn't take a genius to figure this out, as I could do it. :)

    Later
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 13, 2008
    #14
  15. misskali

    Nonny Guest

    Change your name to "Wayne Wacky".

    The old method allowed one to use an upgrade installation disc by
    simply borrowing a qualifying disc from a friend.
     
    Nonny, Jul 13, 2008
    #15
  16. Wayne, I agree. You should see the mess if a user only has an upgrade
    product key and attempts a retromigration from x64 Vista to x86 using a
    Custom install instead of a clean install. Without a classic clean
    installation he gets a messed up Vista x86. I have posted a description of
    that in microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general if you care to see. While
    the workaround is an option the jury is still out on whether MS is going to
    take steps to invalidate activations of Vista installed using it. In any
    case, it is clearly not the user experience MS wants. I have been hammering
    at MS to let x86 Setup work the same way as x64 Setup when using an upgrade
    pk. x64 Setup does not require running from existing Windows when using an
    upgrade pk and I think it is stupid not to let x86 Setup do the same.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 13, 2008
    #16
  17. I think Wayne's point is that x86 Setup forces the user to run from existing
    Windows when using an upgrade pk. The problem is that the disk tools are
    not available to do a clean install. Unfortunately, MS did not block
    running x86 Setup from within existing x64 Windows, allowing the user to do
    a Custom install from there. Doing so is a fatal mistake. A custom install
    of x86 on x64 is a mess. I commented on that today in
    microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general. You get things like a Program Files
    (x86) folder in a 32bit Windows. x86 cannot rollup a 64bit Windows into
    windows.old. It copies everything there but cannot delete so you get left
    with a parallel installation in the same partition.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 13, 2008
    #17

  18. I wish you well in your endeavors with Microsoft in this matter. And thanks
    for your input.


    Wayne
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 13, 2008
    #18
  19. Colin, if Microsoft hasn't forbidden using Paul's method for doing a clean
    install, why are you posting at first that it doesn't work then posting that
    it does but that one day Microsoft might forbid such upgrades?

    Not on your case, just wondering where this is coming from?

    Wayne
     
    Wayne Wastier, Jul 15, 2008
    #19
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