Upgrade Laptop from Vista -> Solaris - well worth the trouble

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Help' started by Dave, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. Dave

    Dave Guest


    For what it is worth, there are 3 types of systems you can install
    Solaris on:

    1) Workstations manufactured by Sun with x86 type CPUs. These run
    Solaris x86, and you would have no issues with getting drivers because
    Sun would obviously write drivers for their own hardware.

    You can if you want dual boot these Windows/Solaris, since the CPU is
    x86 based.

    2) A typical PC made by just about anyone (Dell, HP, your local PC
    shop). These run Solaris x86, but getting drivers for obscure hardware
    can be an issue. But it is pretty good now. There are lists of what
    components are certified to be compatible, but a lot more are OK too.

    Again, you can if you want dual boot these Windows/Solaris, since the
    CPU is x86 based.

    3) Workstations made by Sun, but based on the SPARC processor. These run
    the SPARC version of Solaris and are quite a different animal to an x86
    machine.

    It is totally impossible to run Windows on one of these natively, as the
    CPUs are totally different. The only practical way to run Windows on the
    same machine is to fit a card like this

    http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/sunpcipro/

    which is basically a PC on a card.

    Apart from the OS being free, another nice thing about Solaris is that
    there are to my knowledge no viruses for Solaris. It may be technically
    possible to write one, but I'm not aware of any. Nobody sells anti-virus
    software to protect Solaris systems, simply because it is not needed.

    So even though the hardware is a bit more expensive than a typical PC,
    the operating system is free (unlike Vista) and you don't need
    anti-virus software.
     
    Dave, Nov 23, 2007
    #21
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  2. Dave

    John Doue Guest

    Thanks Dave and Rich for these explanations. Obviously, I did not know a
    thing about Sun and Solaris, thought they were meant for professionals
    only. I will keep this in mind next time I have to make an extensive
    renewal of my equipment and will try meanwhile to familiarize myself
    with Solaris ... time permitting!

    Thanks again
     
    John Doue, Nov 23, 2007
    #22
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  3. Worse than that, there are incompatibilities between VERSIONS of the
    same Linux distro. With Solaris, programs that worked in older
    versions, e.g. Solaris 8, still work in Solaris 10 and will work
    in future versions, it's called Backwards Compatibility.

    For example, I like to use a PostScript viewer called "ghostview"
    on my Solaris 10 desktop. I just checked the ghostview binary and
    OMG! I compiled it in 1993! I don't even remember what version of
    Solaris I was using then.

    It still runs flawlessly (the interface is not very "modern" but it works)
     
    Oscar del Rio, Nov 23, 2007
    #23
  4. Found another gem that still works too

    Help - About:
    Netscape NavigatorTM Gold
    Version 3.04
    Copyright © 1994-1997 Netscape Communications Corporation, All rights reserved.

    :)
     
    Oscar del Rio, Nov 23, 2007
    #24
  5. Dave

    Thommy M. Guest

    Nope, it is in fact so far from all standards that it competes with Windows.
     
    Thommy M., Nov 23, 2007
    #25
  6. Dave

    mike Guest

    Ok, after a day of downloading and concatenating and burning, I have
    a solaris dvd.
    Stuff it into the machine and load up MS VirutalPC.
    Start the install....................
    ........................
    ........................
    Aborted. This requires 753MB of ram, you have only 453MB.
    GAME OVER! Don't these Sun people remember about virtual memory?
    I don't have a machine, that I care to trash, with that much ram.
    Ah for the good old days when you could run MSOFFICE, surf the web
    and have a wonderful time on 4MB of RAM. Why should it take
    753MB of ram to write a letter?

    Ok, undaunted, I try the express version.
    ....................
    .......................
    .......
    Read error, incompatible media installed.
    Hmmmmm...
    GAME 2 OVER.

    Guess I shoulda read the requirements page...silly me...

    Wonder why XP is so popular????

    mike
     
    mike, Nov 24, 2007
    #26
  7. Dave

    Ian Collins Guest

    How can you have virtual memory without backing store?

    Select text install.
     
    Ian Collins, Nov 24, 2007
    #27
  8. Dave

    mike Guest

    Don't know about yours, but mine has a hard drive for backing store
     
    mike, Nov 24, 2007
    #28
  9. Dave

    Dave Guest


    Was an error message from Solaris about requiring 753 MB of RAM? I doubt
    it is, since the requirements are for 256 MB, but 512 are recommended. I
    suspect that is your Virtual PC screwing thing up myself.

    But if you give up that easy, you will never learn enough to make
    Solaris useful to you, so I would go back to XP if I were you.
     
    Dave, Nov 24, 2007
    #29
  10. Dave

    Canuck57 Guest

    Could have fooled me. I routinely write C/C++ and scripting for both and
    have no problems with either of Linux or Solaris. Mostly systems and server
    side but also apps work too.

    I like BOTH Linux and Solaris!!! And use both. No Vista betaware here at
    all. Unless it is a coaster of course. For me I just want the letters u,
    n, i, x in it and I am happy and at home with it.

    While it is true to say Linux does not run a UNIX derived kernel, it is in
    fact POSIX compliant, has for the most part the same APIs and all the same
    utilities as does Solaris. Perl, awk, sed, etc all just work like they
    should. Threads, RPCs, kerberos etc. And Solaris too has evolved quite a
    bit from the old BSD sources and could be said to now be its own lineage.

    If Linux had not come along UNIX would have near dead by now. HP, SGI, DG,
    IBM, Sun and others got greedy, needed C/C++ licenses and almost extorted
    business in pricing. Sun is still in this because they were not as bad, not
    that they were that good. Programs like the X100/V100 and the Intel port
    saved Solaris. It sure wasn't Java.

    HP in Itanic and apathy in development killed HP-UX as a viable OS. DG,
    SGI, do they even sell Irix and DG-UX any more? SCO, we know the story.
    AIX being chip bound and closed is also loosing market share. Why, because
    they wanted at least $2000 and up for a basic compiler, DB etc much more
    extra. OS/HW Vendors put too much faith in companies like BMC and CA with
    their over priced bloated products. It was deathly expensive to run these
    back in the '80's and '90's.

    Microsoft is now buried in their "MS-standards" as each new OS the
    developers, admins must relearn a whole new layer of "Microsoft standards"
    and incompatibilities that we so not see in the xNIX world. Vista has so
    many compatibility layers, even MS engineering no longer understands it.
    This is Microsoft's Achilles heel. Their older software no longer runs on
    their OS!

    So write for both Linux and Solaris and let the user choose. It isn't too
    hard if you script or try to stick to the POSIX APIs and common tools like
    GTK. Don't get too caught up in the next wizbang proprietary API offering,
    most die eventually, while some like GTK make it many do not. SAA or NETBUI
    anyone?

    Open source competition, including Linux is good for this business.

    Now for the flames.
     
    Canuck57, Nov 24, 2007
    #30
  11. Dave

    Canuck57 Guest

    Oh, I so much recommend you use VMWare over that MS virtual thing. It even
    comes up 64 bit on my AMD X2. Runs like a charm.

    http://www.vmware.com/
     
    Canuck57, Nov 24, 2007
    #31
  12. Dave

    Peltio Guest

    Ok, after a day of downloading and concatenating and burning, I have
    Does MS stand for MicroSoft?
    If so, what makes you think that the "game over" is Sun's fault?
     
    Peltio, Nov 24, 2007
    #32
  13. Dave

    mike Guest

    I have 1GB of real ram. I assigned 443MB to the virtual machine. It
    wouldn't let me do 750mb, so I couldn't try that.
    I inserted the dvd and started the installation. It whirred for a while
    then informed me that it found 443MB of ram and needed a minimum of
    753MB. It refused to go further.

    So, yes, I do blame Sun for THEIR error message. If lack of RAM is not
    the problem, they shouldn't be giving me that error message.

    It's certainly possible that Solaris is incompatible with MSVirtualPC.
    But I have succcessfully installed about a dozen linux variants on it.
    I never found one distribution that supported all my virtualized
    hardware at once,
    but that's the same problem I have with real hardware.
    You'd think that anybody wanting to penetrate MS territory would include
    drivers for the virtualized hardware in the MS VirtualPC...but that's
    just me.
    The amount of effort you put into something is directly related to the
    gain you expect to achieve. When you hang out with unix/linux people,
    you are hanging out with people who love to bang their head against the
    wall to make stuff work. They're blind to the fact that for the other
    99% of us...we'd just like it to work. There's no joy in recompiling
    stuff. There's no joy in scouring the web for a driver.
    I've never talked with a linux zealot who understood that. It's all
    my fault that I'm too dumb or lazy to make it work.

    So, you're right. Solaris didn't work for me out of the box.
    I'm too lazy to move the dvd drive to the scratch machine to try
    on real hardware. If I can't make it work on a virtual machine, I won't
    use it anyway.
    I don't expect any benefit beyond learning about Solaris. I give up.

    Is that the fault of Solaris? Only if they want market penetration.

    Look at it this way. I try to teach you something. You don't get it.
    Have you failed as a student? Have I failed as a teacher?
    I submit that blaming the student is FAR less likely to achieve education.
     
    mike, Nov 24, 2007
    #33
  14. Dave

    Ian Collins Guest

    If you are short of RAM, choose the community edition, not the developer
    one (which requires Java for the tools) and select text console install.
    The installer requires more RAM than the running OS. The installer is
    being updated to drastically reduce its memory footprint.
    Do what everyone else does and use VMWare. There are VMWare drivers for
    Solaris, I don't know of anyone using MS VirtualPC.
     
    Ian Collins, Nov 24, 2007
    #34
  15. Dave

    Ian Collins Guest

    Which the installer doesn't know about until you assign and partition
    the drive(s).
     
    Ian Collins, Nov 24, 2007
    #35
  16. Dave

    mike Guest

    Would have been nice to have figgered that out prior to the 10-hour
    download.
    I understand market pressures that make it profitable to spend the
    customer's
    $$$ on more RAM than on writing efficient code.
    But requiring 750MB of RAM just to copy some files from a DVD to
    a HD is INSANE! And the installer taking more ram to run than the OS is
    ....what's the next step beyond insane????
    That should never have made it past the first product concept review.


    The installer is
    Post an announcement when that happens.
    Sure you do...pleased to meet you. I run several windows variants and
    several linux variants.

    I did go visit the vmware site. First impression is that I have to
    click a button labeled "buy" to make it work. That ain't gonna happen.
    There's a free player, but that doesn't look like it works on anything
    except precompiled images???

    Solaris has configured itself out of my market segment. And that's ok...
     
    mike, Nov 24, 2007
    #36
  17. Dave

    mike Guest

    Somehow, linux and windows can figger it out and install just fine.
     
    mike, Nov 24, 2007
    #37
  18. Dave

    Ian Collins Guest

    They are all on the same ISO, the only difference is which components
    get installed.
    If you have an issue and a suggested fix, join the OpenSolaris install
    community. You appear to be suffering from a closed source mindset,
    OpenSolaris is opensource, so if you have an issue, join the appropriate
    community and contribute. Whinging on Usenet will get you nowhere.
    Follow the progress yourself.
    I suggest you look again.
     
    Ian Collins, Nov 24, 2007
    #38
  19. Dave

    Ian Collins Guest

    How can they tell which partition is free, or if the drive isn't
    labeled, where do they write the data?
     
    Ian Collins, Nov 24, 2007
    #39
  20. Dave

    CJT Guest

    In the case of Windows, it probably just assumes ownership as it pleases.
     
    CJT, Nov 24, 2007
    #40
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