very long backup times

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by jaredean, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. jaredean

    jaredean Guest

    our backup times are killing me and i know they aren't normal...here
    is my setup...

    SBS 2003 Premium
    2 external 300 gig drives

    Before anyone gets mad at me, i KNOW i'm not covered the best way
    possible and we are putting together a better backup plan now...but,
    what we are doing in the meantime is 2 backups a week rotating the
    external drives (each drive is holding 2 backups)...

    but, here are the times/sizes of our backups...i don't think this is
    normal at all -- we are using the Backup in SBS to do them...

    Total Backup Time Total Size in GB

    18 hours 48 minutes 208.3
    18 hours 32 minutes 210.4
    20 hours 21 minutes 214.7
    19 hours 30 minutes 215.2
    21 hours 59 minutes 214.3
    20 hours 6 minutes 226.6
    20 hours 20 minutes 227.2
    21 hours 28 minutes 248.2

    that doesn't seem right to me -- that is a TON of time...we start them
    usually at 7:00 PM (people are usually here until then) and they have
    been running well into the next business day...which slows down the
    server as well...

    Any advice?

    jared
     
    jaredean, Nov 2, 2007
    #1
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  2. Hi Jared,

    And the external drives are definitely running in USB 2.0 mode (not USB
    1.1)?

    I usually get about 17-18 GB/hour on backups starting at 11 pm and backing
    up 20-30 GB of data.. However, some things to consider:

    + Exchange does it database maintenance in the wee hours of the morning
    + When you users start logging on and using the server the next morning,
    the backup may slow down.
    + Shadow Copy also kicks in at 7:00 am and noon (default settings) to
    create the Previous Versions stuff and this may slow down the backup.

    All in all, I'd say 20 hours for 225 GB may not be out of line.
     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Nov 2, 2007
    #2
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  3. jaredean

    jaredean Guest

    Hey Merv,

    Thanks for your reply. Yes, they are running 2.0...i had forgotten
    about the exchange maintainence and shadow copy...

    Well, i guess we will just have to live with it...

    thanks,
    jared
     
    jaredean, Nov 2, 2007
    #3
  4. jaredean

    wubing Guest

    What kind server do you use?
     
    wubing, Nov 2, 2007
    #4
  5. jaredean

    wubing Guest

    I totally agree. BE can do job much fast, SQL and Exchange snapshotting
    much faster.
     
    wubing, Nov 2, 2007
    #5
  6. jaredean

    jaredean Guest

    dell poweredge 1800 3.0GHz/2MB Cache, Xeon, 800MHzFront Side Bus in a
    RAID 5 configuration...

    jared
     
    jaredean, Nov 2, 2007
    #6
  7. jaredean

    jaredean Guest

    Wow, i LOVE that idea...and i assume because it is specifically for
    SBS it will backup everything needed for disaster recovery? Exchange,
    etc...

    jared
     
    jaredean, Nov 2, 2007
    #7
  8. Are the External Drives SATA? or ATA

    SATA Drives should give you a faster backup

    Russ

    --

    Russell Grover
    Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
    Remote SBS2203 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    SBS2003 Demo - http://demo.sbits.biz/
    Server Monitoring - Sign Up Free!
    http://www.SBSowl.com



     
    Russ \(SBITS.Biz\), Nov 2, 2007
    #8
  9. Please post one of your backup logs.
     
    Les Connor [SBS MVP], Nov 3, 2007
    #9
  10. you have verified youur USB ports are USB2 and not USB1.1?

    --
    Kevin Weilbacher [SBS MVP]
    "The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"
    *

     
    Kevin Weilbacher, Nov 4, 2007
    #10
  11. Hi Jared,

    Thanks for posting in our newsgroup.

    From your description, I know that you are experience very long backup
    time. If that's not right, please don't hesitate to let me know.

    Please let me know the following to make your situation more clearly:

    1. Did you backup ever run fast? If yes, what important change did you make
    before the issue first occurred?
    2. I need to double confirm, you use the SBS backup, not NTbackup, is that
    right?
    3. What the service pack level of the SBS server?

    Based on my experience, I'd like to give you the following suggestion:

    Step 1:The problem may be related to the backup device, please ensure
    that's in the HCL list. Please also contact the manufacture to install the
    latest driver.

    More info:

    Windows Server Catalog of Tested Products
    http://www.windowsservercatalog.com/

    Step 2: Please make a clean boot to make sure the problem is not caused
    third party software:

    1. Click Start->Run...->type msconfig and press Enter.
    2. Click Services tab and select Hide All Microsoft Services and Disable
    All third party Services.
    3. Click Startup tab and Disable All startup items.
    4. Click OK and choose Restart.
    5. After reboot, check whether the problem still occurs.
    6. If there are no more problems, please use the above steps to enable
    services and startup items one by one in order to figure out the root cause
    of this issue.

    Please also help me collect the following information and I need to check
    if there is backup error or warnings:

    1. Please send all the SBS backup logs to me (The SBS backup logs are
    stored in the <Drive:>\:program Files\Microsoft Windows Small Business
    Server\Support\Backup Logs folder)

    2. Application Event log:

    1) Click Start -> Run, type EVENTVWR.MSC and click OK.
    2) Right click the Application Event, select Save Log File as, save it to
    ..evt file.
    3) Email me the file

    Please send the information to with subject:
    40898886-very long backup times.

    I am looking forward to hear from you.

    If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to let me know.

    Best regards,

    Robert Li(MSFT)

    Microsoft CSS Online Newsgroup Support

    Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

    =====================================================

    This newsgroup only focuses on SBS technical issues. If you have issues
    regarding other Microsoft products, you'd better post in the corresponding
    newsgroups so that they can be resolved in an efficient and timely manner.
    You can locate the newsgroup here:
    http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx

    When opening a new thread via the web interface, we recommend you check the
    "Notify me of replies" box to receive e-mail notifications when there are
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    Microsoft engineers can only focus on one issue per thread. Although we
    provide other information for your reference, we recommend you post
    different incidents in different threads to keep the thread clean. In doing
    so, it will ensure your issues are resolved in a timely manner.

    For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft CSS directly. Please
    check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

    Any input or comments in this thread are highly appreciated.

    =====================================================

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    --------------------
    <From: jaredean <>
    <Subject: Re: very long backup times
    <Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:17:25 -0600
    <Message-ID: <>
    <References: <>
    <>
    <X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
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    <Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
    <Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs:73254
    <X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs
    <
    <Wow, i LOVE that idea...and i assume because it is specifically for
    <SBS it will backup everything needed for disaster recovery? Exchange,
    <etc...
    <
    <jared
    <
    <
    <
    <
    <>In article <>,
    <>says...
    <>> our backup times are killing me and i know they aren't normal...here
    <>> is my setup...
    <>>
    <>> SBS 2003 Premium
    <>> 2 external 300 gig drives
    <>>
    <>> Before anyone gets mad at me, i KNOW i'm not covered the best way
    <>> possible and we are putting together a better backup plan now...but,
    <>> what we are doing in the meantime is 2 backups a week rotating the
    <>> external drives (each drive is holding 2 backups)...
    <>>
    <>> but, here are the times/sizes of our backups...i don't think this is
    <>> normal at all -- we are using the Backup in SBS to do them...
    <>>
    <>> Total Backup Time Total Size in GB
    <>>
    <>> 18 hours 48 minutes 208
    <>
    <>Get BackupExec for SBS, then attach 2 USB drives, then schedule two
    <>backups for the same time, doing 1/2 each, one to drive 1 one to drive
    <>2, and enable compression - this should cut it down to 10 hours or less.
    <>
    <>Windows NTBackup can't run two backups at the same time - BE can.
    <
     
    Robert Li [MSFT], Nov 5, 2007
    #11
  12. jaredean

    jaredean Guest

    they are SATA drives
     
    jaredean, Nov 10, 2007
    #12
  13. jaredean

    jaredean Guest


    here you go:


    11/8/2007 6:01 PM
    -------------------------------
    Date: 11/8/2007
    Time: 6:01 PM
    User: administrator
    -------------------------------

    Backup Runner started.
    Launching NTBackup: ntbackup.exe backup "@C:\Program Files\Microsoft
    Windows Small Business Server\Backup\Small Business Backup Script.bks"
    /d "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM" /v:yes /r:no /rs:no
    /hc:eek:ff /m normal /j "Small Business Server Backup Job" /l:s /f
    "F:\FULL BACKUP\Backup Files\Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf"
    /UM
    NTBACKUP LOG FILE: C:\Documents and Settings\SBS Backup User\Local
    Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows
    NT\NTBackup\data\backup09.log
    =====================<BEGIN NTBACKUP LOG FILE>=====================
    Backup Status
    Operation: Backup
    Active backup destination: File
    Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    at 6:02 PM"

    Volume shadow copy creation: Attempt 1.
    Backup (via shadow copy) of "C: "
    Backup set #1 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    at 6:02 PM"

    Backup Type: Normal

    Backup started on 11/8/2007 at 6:13 PM.
    Backup completed on 11/8/2007 at 7:16 PM.
    Directories: 5044
    Files: 47200
    Bytes: 19,032,361,816
    Time: 1 hour, 3 minutes, and 2 seconds
    Backup (via shadow copy) of "D: dataDrive"
    Backup set #2 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    at 6:02 PM"

    Backup Type: Normal

    Backup started on 11/8/2007 at 7:16 PM.
    Backup completed on 11/9/2007 at 7:38 AM.
    Directories: 23370
    Files: 226905
    Bytes: 168,045,517,915
    Time: 12 hours, 21 minutes, and 46 seconds
    Backup of "PROCORPSVR\Microsoft Information Store\First Storage Group"
    Backup set #3 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    at 6:02 PM"

    Backup Type: Normal

    Backup started on 11/9/2007 at 7:38 AM.
    Backup completed on 11/9/2007 at 10:59 AM.
    Directories: 4
    Files: 21
    Bytes: 53,299,358,030
    Time: 3 hours, 20 minutes, and 57 seconds
    Backup (via shadow copy) of "System State"
    Backup set #4 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    at 6:02 PM"

    Backup Type: Copy

    Backup started on 11/9/2007 at 11:04 AM.
    Backup completed on 11/9/2007 at 11:09 AM.
    Directories: 297
    Files: 2900
    Bytes: 652,847,440
    Time: 4 minutes and 51 seconds

    ----------------------

    Verify Status
    Operation: Verify After Backup
    Active backup destination: File
    Active backup destination: F:\FULL BACKUP\Backup Files\Small Business
    Server Backup (01).bkf

    Verify of "C:"
    Backup set #1 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 11:09 AM.
    Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 11:23 AM.
    Directories: 5044
    Files: 47200
    Different: 0
    Bytes: 19,032,361,816
    Time: 14 minutes and 28 seconds

    Verify of "D:"
    Backup set #2 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 11:23 AM.
    Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 2:22 PM.
    Directories: 23370
    Files: 226905
    Different: 0
    Bytes: 168,045,517,915
    Time: 2 hours, 58 minutes, and 59 seconds

    Verify of "PROCORPSVR\Microsoft Information Store\First Storage Group"
    Backup set #3 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 2:22 PM.
    Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 3:35 PM.
    Directories: 4
    Files: 0
    Different: 0
    Bytes: 53,299,358,030
    Time: 1 hour, 12 minutes, and 53 seconds

    Verify of "System State"
    Backup set #4 on media #1
    Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 3:35 PM.
    Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 3:36 PM.
    Directories: 297
    Files: 2900
    Different: 0
    Bytes: 652,847,440
    Time: 56 seconds

    ----------------------

    =======================<END NTBACKUP LOG FILE>=====================
    NTBackup finished the backup with no errors.
    Backup ended at Friday, November 09, 2007 3:36 PM
    Backup Runner finished.
     
    jaredean, Nov 10, 2007
    #13
  14. jaredean

    jaredean Guest

    the drives are USB 2 and the cable is...is there a place on the server
    that will show me the speed?

    jared
     
    jaredean, Nov 10, 2007
    #14
  15. The drives and cable may be USB 2.0, but to determine if the USB ports on
    your server are USB 2.0 or not, open Device Manager and expand the Universal
    Serial Bus section. If you have USB 2.0 you should see an "Enhanced" USB
    host controller.
     
    Kevin Weilbacher, Nov 10, 2007
    #15
  16. If I'm reading that correctly, you're backing up and verifying over 200 Gb.
    That's going to take a loooong time at USB speeds. I think you need more
    bandwidth for you backup.
     
    Les Connor [SBS MVP], Nov 11, 2007
    #16
  17. Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I checked the backup logs and found the backup finished without any errors.
    It looks the SBS is working OK and the issue is related to your backup
    device.

    At this point, you can change to backup to another device to see if the
    performance can be better.

    In addition, verifying the backup is a very important step to ensure the
    backup is successfully and can be restore when indeed. We can't turn off
    the /v switch on the backup command.

    Hope this helps.

    If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to let me know.

    Best regards,

    Robert Li(MSFT)

    Microsoft CSS Online Newsgroup Support

    Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

    =====================================================

    This newsgroup only focuses on SBS technical issues. If you have issues
    regarding other Microsoft products, you'd better post in the corresponding
    newsgroups so that they can be resolved in an efficient and timely manner.
    You can locate the newsgroup here:
    http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx

    When opening a new thread via the web interface, we recommend you check the
    "Notify me of replies" box to receive e-mail notifications when there are
    any updates in your thread. When responding to posts via your newsreader,
    please "Reply to Group" so that others may learn and benefit from your
    issue.

    Microsoft engineers can only focus on one issue per thread. Although we
    provide other information for your reference, we recommend you post
    different incidents in different threads to keep the thread clean. In doing
    so, it will ensure your issues are resolved in a timely manner.

    For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft CSS directly. Please
    check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

    Any input or comments in this thread are highly appreciated.

    =====================================================

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    --------------------
    <From: jaredean <>
    <Subject: Re: very long backup times
    <Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:34:36 -0700
    <Message-ID: <>
    <References: <>
    <>
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    <Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs:74948
    <X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs
    <
    <On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 10:39:13 -0500, "Les Connor [SBS MVP]"
    <
    <>Please post one of your backup logs.
    <
    <
    <here you go:
    <
    <
    <11/8/2007 6:01 PM
    <-------------------------------
    <Date: 11/8/2007
    <Time: 6:01 PM
    <User: administrator
    <-------------------------------
    <
    <Backup Runner started.
    <Launching NTBackup: ntbackup.exe backup "@C:\Program Files\Microsoft
    <Windows Small Business Server\Backup\Small Business Backup Script.bks"
    </d "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM" /v:yes /r:no /rs:no
    </hc:eek:ff /m normal /j "Small Business Server Backup Job" /l:s /f
    <"F:\FULL BACKUP\Backup Files\Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf"
    </UM
    <NTBACKUP LOG FILE: C:\Documents and Settings\SBS Backup User\Local
    <Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows
    <NT\NTBackup\data\backup09.log
    <=====================<BEGIN NTBACKUP LOG FILE>=====================
    <Backup Status
    <Operation: Backup
    <Active backup destination: File
    <Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    <at 6:02 PM"
    <
    <Volume shadow copy creation: Attempt 1.
    <Backup (via shadow copy) of "C: "
    <Backup set #1 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    <at 6:02 PM"
    <
    <Backup Type: Normal
    <
    <Backup started on 11/8/2007 at 6:13 PM.
    <Backup completed on 11/8/2007 at 7:16 PM.
    <Directories: 5044
    <Files: 47200
    <Bytes: 19,032,361,816
    <Time: 1 hour, 3 minutes, and 2 seconds
    <Backup (via shadow copy) of "D: dataDrive"
    <Backup set #2 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    <at 6:02 PM"
    <
    <Backup Type: Normal
    <
    <Backup started on 11/8/2007 at 7:16 PM.
    <Backup completed on 11/9/2007 at 7:38 AM.
    <Directories: 23370
    <Files: 226905
    <Bytes: 168,045,517,915
    <Time: 12 hours, 21 minutes, and 46 seconds
    <Backup of "PROCORPSVR\Microsoft Information Store\First Storage Group"
    <Backup set #3 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    <at 6:02 PM"
    <
    <Backup Type: Normal
    <
    <Backup started on 11/9/2007 at 7:38 AM.
    <Backup completed on 11/9/2007 at 10:59 AM.
    <Directories: 4
    <Files: 21
    <Bytes: 53,299,358,030
    <Time: 3 hours, 20 minutes, and 57 seconds
    <Backup (via shadow copy) of "System State"
    <Backup set #4 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Media name: "Small Business Server Backup (01).bkf created 11/8/2007
    <at 6:02 PM"
    <
    <Backup Type: Copy
    <
    <Backup started on 11/9/2007 at 11:04 AM.
    <Backup completed on 11/9/2007 at 11:09 AM.
    <Directories: 297
    <Files: 2900
    <Bytes: 652,847,440
    <Time: 4 minutes and 51 seconds
    <
    <----------------------
    <
    <Verify Status
    <Operation: Verify After Backup
    <Active backup destination: File
    <Active backup destination: F:\FULL BACKUP\Backup Files\Small Business
    <Server Backup (01).bkf
    <
    <Verify of "C:"
    <Backup set #1 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 11:09 AM.
    <Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 11:23 AM.
    <Directories: 5044
    <Files: 47200
    <Different: 0
    <Bytes: 19,032,361,816
    <Time: 14 minutes and 28 seconds
    <
    <Verify of "D:"
    <Backup set #2 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 11:23 AM.
    <Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 2:22 PM.
    <Directories: 23370
    <Files: 226905
    <Different: 0
    <Bytes: 168,045,517,915
    <Time: 2 hours, 58 minutes, and 59 seconds
    <
    <Verify of "PROCORPSVR\Microsoft Information Store\First Storage Group"
    <Backup set #3 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 2:22 PM.
    <Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 3:35 PM.
    <Directories: 4
    <Files: 0
    <Different: 0
    <Bytes: 53,299,358,030
    <Time: 1 hour, 12 minutes, and 53 seconds
    <
    <Verify of "System State"
    <Backup set #4 on media #1
    <Backup description: "SBS Backup created on 11/8/2007 at 6:01 PM"
    <Verify started on 11/9/2007 at 3:35 PM.
    <Verify completed on 11/9/2007 at 3:36 PM.
    <Directories: 297
    <Files: 2900
    <Different: 0
    <Bytes: 652,847,440
    <Time: 56 seconds
    <
    <----------------------
    <
    <=======================<END NTBACKUP LOG FILE>=====================
    <NTBackup finished the backup with no errors.
    <Backup ended at Friday, November 09, 2007 3:36 PM
    <Backup Runner finished.
    <
     
    Robert Li [MSFT], Nov 12, 2007
    #17
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