Vista Business And XP Pro file and directory sharing issues

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Networking' started by DonR, Jul 10, 2007.

  1. DonR

    DonR Guest

    Environment
    Windows XP Pro Peer to Peer server with easy file sharing
    Multiple (3) XP Pro Clients
    Multiple Vista (2) Business Clients

    There are no problems with win XP pro clients and the Win XP Pro peer to
    peer server.

    The windows vista business clients can save a file from word 2007, excel
    2007, vista's notepad, or vista's wordpad to their respective XP Pro server
    user diretory.

    The following error occurs - In vista's windows explorer if you try to
    create a file, rename an existing file, or rename an existing directory.
    "\\WinXPProPeertoPeerServer\user\My Doucments\folder does not exist. The
    file may have been moved or deleted." " Do you want to creat it?"

    Don Raymond
     
    DonR, Jul 10, 2007
    #1
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  2. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    Don,

    The "... \user\My Doucments\ ..." folder tree is user personal. Are you
    authenticating to the server as Guest, or with a specific non-Guest account?
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-under-windows-xp.html#Guest>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-under-windows-xp.html#Guest

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 11, 2007
    #2
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  3. DonR

    DonR Guest

    Thank you for you taking the time to respond.
    The users files on the xp pro peer to peer are stored in
    ....\user\username\... not username\My Documents\...

    The ...user\username\... created and shared with "use simple file sharing"
    and works fine for the XP clients. The actual "Network Sharing and Security"
    settings are "share this folder on the network" and "Allow network users to
    change my files"

    There should be no need for user names or profiles to be created on the xp
    peer to peer with "simple file sharing".

    Thanky Don

    --
    Thanks for your time.


     
    DonR, Jul 11, 2007
    #3
  4. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    So the folder in question is "\user\username\", not "username\My Documents\".
    So why does Vista report "\user\My Doucments\"?

    Anyway, you can permission the Security on a folder, to allow anyone to read and
    change any files in any folders. With Guest being used for Sharing (network
    access), any files in the "\user\" folder structure aren't going to be
    accessible, without major tweaking.

    Only the owner of the folder will have share access. Since Guest is the only
    account used for sharing, under SFS, the owner won't have access.

    Read about Security vs Sharing permissions.
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/09/server-access-authorisation.html>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/09/server-access-authorisation.html

    And about the limitations of Guest only access.
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-under-windows-xp.html#Guest>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-under-windows-xp.html#Guest

    BTW, top posting, combined with using a delimited signature (starting with a
    line "-- ") is counter productive.
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html#TopPosting>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html#TopPosting

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 11, 2007
    #4
  5. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    The files are reported as "\user\username\" by a Vista client, when they
    actually are in "\documents and settings\username\" on the XP server. Or did
    you setup "C:\Users\..." on the server?
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2007/07/windows-vista-and-personal-storage.html>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2007/07/windows-vista-and-personal-storage.html

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 11, 2007
    #5
  6. DonR

    DonR Guest

    I have read "Most" of your blog of Pchuck's Network and it is quite impressive.
    May I please ask the question again?

    Environment
    p2p server with Winxppro SFS shared directory c:\users\don\my Documents\Word
    or Excel or any other sub directory.

    The xp clients have no problems.

    The vista business clients can creat a file in word, excel, notepad, or
    wordpad and call that file up and change the data and save it again.

    The Vista clients only can not using vista windows explorer rename a file or
    move a file. The Vista clients can not rename a directory, or move a
    directory.

    The following error occurs - In vista's windows explorer if you try to
    create a file, rename an existing file, or rename an existing directory.
    "\\WinXPProPeertoPeerServer\user\My Doucments\folder does not exist. The
    file may have been moved or deleted." " Do you want to create it?"

    Why are the XP clients able to rename and move files and directories when
    the vista clients can't?

    Thank you

    Don

    --
    Thanks for your time.


     
    DonR, Jul 12, 2007
    #6
  7. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    Don,

    I think I see the problem. Follow me here.

    Under Windows XP, personal storage is "C:\Documents and Settings\Username\", but
    under Windows Vista it's "c:\Users\Username".

    Typically, you don't access personal storage across the LAN anyway.
    1) The server has to be running Advanced File Sharing (PPS Enabled).
    2) The client has to be logged in with a non-Guest account that has
    administrative access on the server.

    Read my article carefully please, it's new. ;-)
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2007/07/windows-vista-and-personal-storage.html>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2007/07/windows-vista-and-personal-storage.html

    The key word is "junction point".

    Under Vista, "C:\Documents and Settings" is a junction point for "C:\Users".
    Any software thinks it's looking at "C:\Documents and
    Settings\Whoever\Whatever\" is REALLY being given "C:\Users\Whoever\Whatever".

    If a computer running Windows Vista is asked for a file in "C:\Documents and
    Settings", it's going to look in "C:\Users". It goes to a computer running
    Windows XP, and asks for "C:\Users\whatever", and that computer says
    "\\WinXPProPeertoPeerServer\user\My Doucments\folder does not exist.", which is
    correct.

    The computers running Windows XP, on the other hand, know to only ask for
    "C:\Documents and Settings\Whoever\Whatever".

    Do you follow me?

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 13, 2007
    #7
  8. DonR

    DonR Guest

    Sorry, I do not follow you because winxp is the OS for the deticated p2p
    server that houses the users data. The clients "never" store their data in
    Documents and Settings on the p2p server. This would void the corporate
    backup policy and would basically be grounds for termination. Clients are
    required by corporate policy to store their corporate data on the server and
    to place it in the directory structure that is backed up nightly which is not
    Doc & Settings.

    Vista workstations are clients only along with other winxppro client only
    workstations.

    Mahalo

    (Thanks)
    Don 808-235-6445




    --
    Thanks for your time.


     
    DonR, Jul 15, 2007
    #8
  9. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    Don,

    Try and describe in more detail, please, what you are doing when you get the
    error "\\WinXPProPeertoPeerServer\user\My Doucments\folder does not exist. The
    file may have been moved or deleted. Do you want to creat it?" Maybe instead of
    being mysterious you could use the actual server name, instead of typing out
    "WinXPProPeertoPeerServer"?

    What this sounds like is you trying to use personal storage on the Peer-to-Peer
    server, and I think that's where your problem starts.

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 15, 2007
    #9
  10. DonR

    DonR Guest

    The server name is "HP_Server"
    The directory / path on the server from the work stations UNC point of veiw
    is:
    "\\hp_server\users\ron\excel\bids\bidhonolulu.xls"
    The actual directory is "c:\users\ron\excel\bids\bidhonolulu.xls"
    This is a windows xp pro p2p server.

    For deticated p2p servers I always set up directories for Users and Temp at
    the root of the servers primary boot drive "c:" and share these directories
    along with all their sub directories.

    The exact same situation happens for
    \\hp_server\temp\printerdrivers\readme.txt

    Everything works for the xp pro workstation. The users can create, delete,
    rename, copy, or move files or directories under the shared servers users or
    temp directories.

    With a vista business workstation one can create the file.
    "\\hp_server\temp\printerdrivers\readme.txt" on the server.
    If you try to rename the file to
    "\\hp_server\temp\printerdrivers\readme.old" you will get an error. If you
    try and move the file to a different directoy you will get an error.

    Thanks Don

    Thanks Don




    --
    Thanks for your time.


     
    DonR, Jul 16, 2007
    #10
  11. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    And does the error include
    "\\hp_server\user\My Doucments\folder does not exist. The file may have been
    moved or deleted.", or is this another error?

    Once you setup the share "\\hp_server\user" on the server, are you setting up
    the folders within the share from the server itself, or from an XP Pro client?

    Is Simple File Sharing enabled on all (Windows XP) computers, or just the
    server? Is Password Protected Sharing turned off, or on, on the Vista
    computers?

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 16, 2007
    #11
  12. DonR

    DonR Guest

    a)Your question "And does the error include".... Yes ...The path shown is
    correct and changes based upon where the file actually is. The following
    will show My Documents as that is a valid directory I created within the path
    Ex:
    \\hp_server\users\stuart\My Documents\word\2007\file.doc.
    If you try to change this to file.old it will show the entire path structure
    within the error message which includes the sub directory My Documents. This
    has nothing to do with My Documents under Documents and settings for XP each
    user. That directory structure on the server is not used and not even set up
    as the only two users on the server with anything under documents and
    settings would be "Administrator" and "Backup"

    b) Your question "Once you set up..." Both . Initially I set up the basic
    structure from the server and then the users are free to create sub
    directories as the wish from the work stations.

    c) Your question "Is simple file sharing enabled on all xp computers" Yes
    c1) Your question "Is pasword protection turned sharing turned off, or, on
    on the vista computers." ... I don't know. How do I check? I keyed in
    Password Protected Sharring into an unrelated Vista Business computer and it
    does not mention this feature specifically.

    Thanks Don


    The error will show any path that is
    --
    Thanks for your time.


     
    DonR, Jul 17, 2007
    #12
  13. DonR

    Chuck [MVP] Guest

    Don,

    One of the most important settings (OK, they are all important) for Windows
    Vista Networking is Password Protected Sharing. PPS On is equivalent to turning
    Simple File Sharing Off (activating Advanced File Sharing) in Windows XP.
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/12/windows-xp-and-vista-on-lan-together.html>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/12/windows-xp-and-vista-on-lan-together.html

    Now there is a difference between AFS and PPS, at least there is a stated
    difference in the documentation. With Windows XP, you can use the Guest account
    under either AFS or SFS, and with or without a password. With Vista, the
    documentation states
    "... The following additional file and printer sharing options must be manually
    enabled: ...
    Password protected sharing

    When all of these sharing and discovery options are enabled, your computer can:
    ....
    Require user names and passwords for other computers that connect to the shared
    folders and printers of this computer."

    With Windows XP, you need to balance the AFS/SFS settings, and the password
    requirements settings, for all computers. If a computer, in its server
    settings, were to require passwords, as a client, it would try to supply a
    password when connecting to a server. You would have to provide an identical,
    non-blank password on all non-Guest accounts on all computers. If you didn't,
    you'd get "... access denied .".

    This setting is in the Local Security Policy. I'll bet that it's in Vista
    Business too.
    <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-under-windows-xp.html#Synchronise>
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-under-windows-xp.html#Synchronise

    I'll bet that the "Accounts: Limit local account use of blank passwords to
    console logon only" (it's a confusing name) needs to be checked. In a workgroup
    "authentication", all accounts are local.

    And there are other LSPs too, that may be relevant. My observation has been
    that the Network and Sharing Center GUI (pretty and easy to use) is simply a
    front end for all of the LSPs. You'll run the LSP Editor under Windows XP (you
    have one for XP Pro, though not for XP Home), and for Vista Business, and
    compare the settings, and I'll bet that you find a tweak that hasn't been done
    properly.

    That's where I would start anyway.

    --
    Cheers,
    Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
    http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
    Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
    My email is AT DOT
    actual address pchuck mvps org.
     
    Chuck [MVP], Jul 17, 2007
    #13
  14. DonR

    DonR Guest

    Chuck
    I have to admit i gave up on getting a solution to this issue. Now I have
    three installations with this exact problem. Win XP Pro servers with Vista
    Business clients all getting the same message. You idea to try the LSP
    process sounds like it has a lot of merit. I have executed Secpol.msc on
    both the servers and workstations and really don't know where to start
    looking. There are several sections to the Local Security Policy. Any
    suggestion on where to look would be appreciated.

    Mahalo
    Don

    --
    Thanks for your time.


     
    DonR, Oct 10, 2007
    #14
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