Vista EULA -- "hardware partition" == "disk partition"???

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by Keith, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. Keith

    Keith Guest

    I know, not another EULA question.. Is MS' "hardware partition" terminology
    designed to cover "bootable disk paritions" specifically? If so, what is the
    value of restricting the number of installs on a single hardware unit? You
    can only (practically) run one OS at a time, so it shouldn't matter how many
    installs you have on that machine, right?

    Not sure if MS employees respond to threads here. If not, is there an
    official vista forum where I can get a response from somebody from MS?

    Or if anybody has links to clarifications of the whole "hardware partition"
    terminology I'd appreciate those as well.

    Also, I just read in one of the recent EULA threads hereabouts that the XP
    EULA didn't allow install on more than one disk partition per license -- I
    don't see this in the EULA at all, just references to installing on "a single
    computer":

    "1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access, display and run one
    copy of the Software on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal or
    other device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not be used by more
    than two (2) processors at any one time on any single Workstation Computer."
     
    Keith, Oct 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Keith

    Chad Harris Guest

    Kieth --

    I can't answer that question. *I'd send that question to Nick White [MSFT]
    because Nick plans to try to clarify the Eula very soon after going over
    some of the questions raised by Robert McLaw's blog and the responses to
    them and Nick is in a much better position to get that answer. You can
    contact Nick through his blog (Nick is a developer on the Vista Launch team
    at MSFT):
    http://blogs.technet.com/windowsvista/default.aspx

    To decipher the Vista Eula I think you have to get an attorney who has done
    the Raiders of the Lost Ark 3 tour--and spent some time with the guru like
    Uma Thurman in "Get Bill 2". You may get some clarification or more
    confusder and confusder than ever with these links- it's going to be "fun
    fun fun" though when the customers get "a hunk a hunka burnin' UAC and Vista
    Eula (apologies to Elvis) and "Daddy takes the XP away".

    I'd try to go item by item but I don't want to get hypnotized by reading the
    Vista Eula worse than staring into a spinning Disco Ball this early in the
    AM.

    Vista's Enthusiastic Licensing Restrictions
    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing_reply.asp

    Longhorn Blogs Articles on Vista Eula
    http://www.windows-now.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=eula

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Oct 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. Keith

    Keith Guest

    Excellent, thanks for the info, Chad! I'll keep my eyes open for that...
     
    Keith, Oct 24, 2006
    #3
  4. With a product like VMWare I can have MANY copies
    of Vista running simultaneously.

    Steve
     
    Steve de Mena, Oct 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Keith

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi,

    A partition, hardware or disk, is a logical construct of the drive space, as
    is a volume. Regardless of how many you have, it is still the same machine.

    There are a few 'softies that frequent these groups, but as they do so they
    do not offer anything official from Microsoft in the way of legal
    interpretations of their OS's licensing. No one has seen the final version
    of the license yet, but in the past it has been that you are allowed to
    install and use one copy of the software on one machine. This would preclude
    multiple installations to different volumes on the same machine, however
    there is nothing in activation or WGA that would prevent it either. Plus,
    one of the recommended data recovery methods recommended by Microsoft is a
    parallel installation, which would seem to imply that using a second
    installation on the same machine to safeguard against data loss is within
    the terms of the license.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
     
    Rick Rogers, Oct 24, 2006
    #5
  6. Not using the same license you can't. Unless it is the Vista beta
    license or an MSDN license.

    If I understand the OP's question, it is can you have the same licensed
    copy of Vista (or XP) installed on different partitions of the same hard
    disk? In this situation the different installations cannot be run
    simultaneously.

    David Wilkinson
     
    David Wilkinson, Oct 24, 2006
    #6
  7. More usefully, it would allow you to use one installation as a test
    machine. Is this in fact allowed?

    David Wilkinson
     
    David Wilkinson, Oct 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Keith

    xfile Guest

    There are a few 'softies that frequent these groups, but as they do so
    Try this:
    http://download.microsoft.com/docum...lish_9d10381d-6fa8-47c7-83b0-c53f722371fa.pdf

    5 (a) The software will from time to time validate the software, update or
    require download of the
    validation feature of the software. Validation verifies that the software
    has been activated and is
    properly licensed. Validation also permits you to use certain features of
    the software or to obtain
    additional benefits. For more information, see
    http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=39157.

    15 (a). Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade.
    The first user of the software may
    reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the
    license, that other device
    becomes the ¡§licensed device.¡¨

    Hope this helps.
     
    xfile, Oct 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Keith

    Keith Guest

    I think we agree here... though I'm under the impression that the term
    "hardware partition" was invented by MS to cover, in particular, "disk
    partitions". In all my years using computers and being a professional
    software developer the Vista EULA is the first time I've ever heard of a
    "hardware partition".
    That's my understanding -- licensed for up to two CPUs on a single
    "computer" (please see my earlier quote from the 1.1 section of the XP
    EULA)...
    .... but this is the conclusion I've seen in other threads that I'm not
    understanding... A "machine" (or "computer" or "workstation"...) is not a
    "volume" or "partition", as you correctly inferred in your first statement.
    So how does the XP EULA, for example, preclude installation to multiple
    "partitions" on a single "computer"? The XP EULA specifically references
    installation on "computers", not "partitions" or "volumes". I could have a
    single machine with 20 partititions across 5 drives and install XP on each
    one -- all installs are on a single "computer" and I can only use one of them
    at a time on up to 2 CPUs.

    Or maybe I'm just misreading your words.

    In any event, I am curious about the interpretation of the XP EULA that I've
    read around here, but more interested in this new "hardware partition"
    terminology...
     
    Keith, Oct 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Keith

    Keith Guest

    I know. I was more interested in the multi-boot scenario. From a licensing
    and piracy perspective, protecting against .0001% of the windows population
    from running multiple installs simultaneously (on the same machine) is
    probably way down on the list.

    For multiple people to take advantage of a single license with something
    like VMWare you'd need a bunch of KVM hardware, monitors, etc., an everyone
    would have to physically sit in the same room. Or you could run sessions over
    a network, which would be real fast.

    For just a single person sitting in front of his machine, who cares how many
    simultaneous OS runtimes you have going? It's like splicing your cable line
    but instead of feeding each of your five neighbors you're plugging each line
    into a switch box feeding a single TV in your living room. Sure you could
    TiVO 5 programs at once, but who cares... the bigger problem is feeding the
    lines to your neighbors.
     
    Keith, Oct 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Yes, I noticed. Off-hand it sounds like an attempt to limit the number of
    installs of the same copy on your machine i.e. that they are trying to say
    that one can install it on say C: but not create a dual-boot for your own
    purposes with the same copy by installit on D: as well. Lousy EULA ..real
    crummy.

    I promise I will recommend Windows Vista if Microsoft removes WGA-N like
    software from it and relent on the over-exacting retail EULA.

    But until they do, Windows Vista will not be my primary OS. I will be using
    it though, as I do development - I can't avoid it at this point. But my
    documents and papers will be on a computer not controlled by Windows Vista.
    If they don't care, so then why now should I?

     
    SESSION_EVENT, Oct 24, 2006
    #11
  12. -----Original Message-----
    Keith,

    You might want to read following document:
    http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/dhp.mspx
     
    Alexander Suhovey, Oct 24, 2006
    #12
  13. Keith

    Keith Guest

    Excellent, thak you very much, Alexander. That's exactly what I was looking
    for. It sounds like their use of "hardware partition" and "blade" are in fact
    related, which wasn't clear to me. I guess with further clarification coming
    down the road the multi-boot question will be resolved, but I do feel a
    little better after seeing that "hardware partition" is (most likely) not
    just a vague EULA term. There's still the transfer issue, but that's another
    thread that doesn't need to be started...

    Thanks again!
     
    Keith, Oct 24, 2006
    #13
  14. Keith

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi David,

    In that scenario, no, as that is essentially two working systems, but it
    doesn't prevent it from being used that way.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
     
    Rick Rogers, Oct 24, 2006
    #14
  15. That was not the issue, I was replying to someone
    saying that "You can only (practically) run one OS
    at a time".

    Steve
     
    Steve de Mena, Oct 25, 2006
    #15
  16. With MSDN I imagine it will be for Vista. I doubt
    for the retail versions.

    Steve
     
    Steve de Mena, Oct 25, 2006
    #16
  17. Keith

    Chad Harris Guest

    Keith --

    If you follow Ed Bott's two blogs if not now in a very short time I think he
    will break it down in a way that anyone can understand the use of Vista on a
    virtual machine and other licensing privileges. My understanding right now,
    is that you can install to a Virtual Machine with only Ultimate, but I
    wouldn't carve in stone what might be evolving. I think that MFST is going
    to react to some of the feedback that they're getting on licensing
    restrictions, have an even more liberal sales opportunity policy than has
    been announced yesterday and today as to upgrade certificates and discounts
    on Office and Vista, and I think litigation is going to force them to revise
    their kill switch. Just my guess. See if these posts on Ed Bott's blog are
    helpful to you and keep watching Robert McLaw's blog I linked for you and
    Nick White's blog, Mary Jo Foley's on ZD net. Those 4 sites named above
    will sort it out for you as fast as they can get MSFT to sort it out if and
    when that happens.

    blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=156

    blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=158

    www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=1022

    www.windowsobserver.com/2006/10/16/ed-bott-on-vistas-new-eula/

    talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=25429&messageID=477298&start=-

    talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=25501&messageID=479354&start=-1

    feeds.feedburner.com/EdBott-WindowsandOfficeExpertise

    www.robichaux.net/blog/2006/10/windows_vista_eula_no_virtual_hardware.php

    digg.com/tech_news/A_sneaky_change_in_Windows_licensing_terms_Ed_Bott_s_Microsoft_Report

    digg.com/users/randysouth

    www.techmeme.com/061013/p32

    MSFT needs to do a better job, of course, clarifying their EULA and final
    licensing options, and right now among MSFT personnel I know there is some
    confusion. Obviously licensure shouldn't be a counterintuitive puzzle. If
    they want to make puzzles, they should work with the X-Box game development
    teams to come up with them--but maybe their can be an X-box game called EULA
    Purgatory with a lot of first person shooter mods for new Video cards and
    "dual core/quad core 4MHz on the floor--dice on the mirror boxes.

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Oct 25, 2006
    #17
  18. That really makes no sense as far as Virtualization software is concerned.
    For example, with an Apple Intel PC, one may install Parallels Desktop for
    Mac, and create an XP virtual machine, open it, and have the OS X desktop
    on one display, with XP's desktop on another display, both at the same
    time, and both having active applications.

    I know this for a fact, since I do it all the time.

    Donald
    -------------------------------------------
     
    Donald L McDaniel, Oct 25, 2006
    #18
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