Vista GUI

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by Ed Dixon, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Ed Dixon

    Ed Dixon Guest

    Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind
    about the GUI changes:



    1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows
    take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of
    Windows.


    2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as
    Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.


    3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple
    sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major
    undertaking.


    4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more
    difficult.


    It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a
    Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha
    level products.



    Ed
     
    Ed Dixon, Apr 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ed Dixon

    Tim S. Guest

    Ed, you did not say what version of Vista you are running. Vista has made
    great strides since the first releases and will make many more before it is
    a full featured and robust OS. It will be one of the most secured OS out on
    the market.
    It is in many stages of testing, and if you think about it, a few extra
    clicks of the mouse to insure security on your system isn't so bad, compared
    to the alternative of someone hacking into your system and causing all sorts
    of havoc.
    The issues you have brought up will be addressed and streamlined and fixed
    as needed, so stay tuned and don't get to frustrated, it will get better.

    Regards
     
    Tim S., Apr 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. My personal answers in line:
    * Could you specify for example? I have 3 columns of applications in the all
    programs group on XP, it takes 1 to 2 mins to find something, Vista, just
    type in the name of the app and it pops up on the new start menu. Filtered
    search integrated into every explorer makes it really easy to find files.
    *This is still a work in progress and you should see changes to it as the
    beta progresses, you can currently disable UAP (User account protect) Win
    key + R > type in MSCONFIG > Tools (tab) > scroll down > select Disable UAP
    convenience though in the beta, as it is not the expected behaviour in the
    final release. Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we
    are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
    * List view is coming back and there should be some additional changes by RC
    1 :)
    * I am sure the folks who work on Tweak UI and other Windows Power Toys as a
    part time project will be releasing updates for Vista as soon as it RTMs or
    some time after.* It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a
    *I agree, but it is still beta 1 regardless you see that build tag saying
    BETA 2, optimization of performance will increase and the installation time
    will be reduced by BETA 2 going forward.* You can send in your sentiments here:
    http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=55160
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Apr 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Ed Dixon

    Ed Dixon Guest

    Running 5308.

    My current reaction to Vista is one giant step backwards. Maybe it will
    improve with other releases, but currently it's something I would recommend
    to customers to avoid at all cost.


    Ed
     
    Ed Dixon, Apr 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Ed Dixon

    Ed Dixon Guest

    In reply.

    1. Mouse clicks. Display properties is one example. You want to change the
    resolution or some other display setting. Before right mouse clock, select
    tab, and make changes. Vista involves more steps. Almost everything in
    control panel is this way.

    2. Security. My thought would have been to disable UAP (or whatever else is
    needed) and default to past approach. Then provide an info popup with
    summary info about new options in this area that offer increased
    security/restrictions.

    I used to work with the Air Force on software efforts. An Air Force General
    there had a very good comment about computer security. His words were "The
    greatest threat to security is denial of service". What he meant was that
    security changes that made the system harder for the rank and file to use
    posed a greater threat in preventing them from doing their jobs than the
    efforts of actual bad folks.

    3. Windows Explorer. I find it amazing that they released anything with
    it's current state. it's just too central to Windows to have the problems
    it has.

    4. TweakUI. Figured this one was coming. However I would have expected
    more at this point.

    I remember seeing Win95 in the early Beta days. It was much closer to
    something useable than what I see here. Same for Win98, Win2000, XP, 2003,
    etc. This one is just way off, which might have something to do with the
    news items about Vista being postponed until 2007.

    Ed
     
    Ed Dixon, Apr 22, 2006
    #5
  6. Ed Dixon

    Yeff Guest

    The PowerToys are things that Microsoft programmers do on their own
    time. They were never officially supported by Microsoft so you
    shouldn't expect to have them as part of the base OS.
     
    Yeff, Apr 22, 2006
    #6
  7. Ed Dixon

    Frank Guest

    You ain't alone on that one!
    Frank
     
    Frank, Apr 22, 2006
    #7
  8. Ed Dixon

    Tom Lake Guest

    Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we
    I want it to be secure from outsiders, not from the person sitting
    at the keyboard!

    Tom Lake
     
    Tom Lake, Apr 22, 2006
    #8
  9. Ed Dixon

    Puppy Breath Guest

    I had the same impression at first. But after a few weeks of using Vista
    navigation, I'm wondering how I ever got along without it. I hate going back
    to XP now because I can get to everything and anything much more quickly and
    easily in Vista. The old way of doing things, where everything is based on
    "location", is ancient history from here on out. And I say "good riddance",
    now that I understand how to get around in Vista.

    You'll feel the same way in a few weeks. (This coming from a guy who, like
    most people here, have been doing this stuff since DOS days).
     
    Puppy Breath, Apr 22, 2006
    #9
  10. Ed Dixon

    Roy Coorne Guest

    Roy Coorne, Apr 22, 2006
    #10
  11. Ed Dixon

    Tim S. Guest

    Too often the outsiders ARE the ones sitting at the keyboard.

    Regards
     
    Tim S., Apr 22, 2006
    #11
  12. Ed Dixon

    Ed Dixon Guest

    Keeping Vista running here at all has been hard. My primary test machine no
    longer boots vista correctly and the last two attempts to reinstall failed
    for unspecified reasons.


    New concepts for navigation are not a new thing. However closing down the
    old ones is usually a bad idea and simply becomes a reason not to upgrade.


    I do lots of Windows support work as well as development. I divide users
    into three groups. Group 1 are novices who may not have noticed that a mouse
    has more than one button. Group 2 are seasoned Windows users and can get
    around and do most things easily. Group 3 are experts.


    The world is full of group 1. Group 2 is increasing in size, but slowly and
    group 3 is tiny (percentage wise). Vista will be rejected by group 1 in
    anything like it's current form. Group 3 may like or hate it, but can deal
    with it either way. Group 2 opinions will vary based on their jobs.

    Ed
     
    Ed Dixon, Apr 22, 2006
    #12
  13. Ed Dixon

    Ed Dixon Guest

    So the outsider has got to the PC and logged in. These mouse click
    inefficiencies will not deter the outside from doing what they, only taking
    a few more mouse clicks.

    Once someone is in, they're in. These new things offer no security at that
    point, only more work. One cannot solve physical security with inefficient
    design.

    Ed
     
    Ed Dixon, Apr 22, 2006
    #13
  14. Ed Dixon

    Frank Guest

    In a few weeks? I don't think so! I've been banging away with these
    builds for what...over a year now and I still don't get what it is the
    heads of development are trying to do.
    If you remember, going from Dos to 3 to 95 (A,B,C) to 98 to 98SE to ME
    to 2K to XP/MCE everything go easier and simpler with each new release.
    I don't see the human logic in how you navigate in Vista. It's not
    there. If I'm going to volume license Vista for my company, it can't be
    like it is now. I won't take it. There is absolutely nothing
    compelling, right now, in Vista, that warrants shelling out thousands of
    $'s for it in my view. And seeing as how I own a marketing company, I
    kinda have an professional idea of how the buying public tends to spend
    their hard earned dollars. After all, it's my job.
    I'm hoping things will change. Maybe BG will light a fire under the team
    or SB will throw some chairs around, pound on the desk and maybe kick
    some ass.
    I hope!
    Frank
     
    Frank, Apr 22, 2006
    #14
  15. its stinks big time..
     
    John Jay Smith, Apr 23, 2006
    #15
  16. you have to analyze? and get lost in the details?

    No thanks!

    Let me give it to you simple and clear:
    the "User Experience" stinks!
     
    John Jay Smith, Apr 23, 2006
    #16
  17. I think it rocks! Some of the dialogs are simplified so much more now - I've
    literally just encountered a "Desktop Composition" message with 3 options -
    all laid out easily and simply, specific but easy to understand :eek:)

    --
    Zack Whittaker
    » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
    » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
    » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
    » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
    rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
    of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared
    that up!

    --: Original message follows :--
     
    Zack Whittaker, Apr 23, 2006
    #17
  18. The changes made to explorer are tremedous in their advantages, you don't
    have to be opening dialogs, its right there in front of you, features like
    Preview Pane, Explorer Favorite links (improved in 5365), bread crumb menus
    which makes it easier to navigate through folders. The built in search which
    makes it way easier to find a file. In XP it could have taken forever to
    find a file using the old search technology. Now with the new fast search
    technology, its a few seconds.

    More secure, UAP (still a work in progress) is really a needed feature in
    Windows, people need to be protected from themselves, especially with the
    continuous barrage of malicious data on the net, UAP prevents you from
    installing mistakes on your computer that is commonly happening on XP and
    prior versions of Windows. Internet Explorer Protected Mode makes your web
    browsing experience safer, AntiPhishing sites can't easily fool you, you
    can't easily get infected with Malware because AntiMalware protection is
    built right in, plus its part of the OS with Windows Defender. Internet
    Explorer is easier to use, features such as TABs, Tab Gallery, subscribing
    to your favorite websites are built right in.

    Built in collaboration makes it easier to connect up to other people in a
    ad-hoc way, you are able to share data easily and more securely. Connecting
    to devices is easier, plug it in and it works, (still a work in progress,
    but its getting) there. Things importing and managing your photographs,
    finding things to do with them, whether its tagging for easier finding,
    making a DVD, viewing a slide. Features like burning a DVD, backing up data,
    its easy and its built, its still rough around edges, but its getting there,
    XP was rough around the edges during this stage of development. But just
    knowing its in there, giving you a better more complete out of the box
    experience is what really makes Vista really compelling for me personally.

    Things like managing your music is way cool in Vista, the new Album preview
    feature with the built in search capabilities makes listening to your music
    a great experience. Managing e-mail is easier, searching through tonnes of
    e-mail again is easier because of the new built in search capabilities,
    finding helpful answers in newsgroups is easier because of built in
    community feature. AntiPhishing is built in which makes it a safer
    experience, new spam filter filter makes cleaning your inbox a rear
    occasion, migrating your mail box is easier because of the new Mail store.

    Vista will be easier to deploy, this is still a work in progress, but trust
    me, its getting there, and I am sure by RTM we will be surprised and say we
    were wrong. The new end to end experiences that are being built will surely
    make us think so, deploying in multilingual environments or sites will be
    easier for companies, BitLocker, Virtual PC Express, Unix Subsystem, (Tablet
    PC, 64-Bit, Media Center) bringing it mainstream and opening peoples eyes to
    the possibilities of these awesome features. Features like Sidebar, which is
    about presenting bits of real time information to people when they need it.

    I have not even tapped into the Developer opportunities, to build richer,
    more compelling, connected, easier applications with tools such as Windows
    Presentation and Communication Foundation. There is so much in Vista, and
    last but not least, the clean user interface that is presented through
    Windows Aero. I think Glass is sexy stuff, it still needs work especially
    things like the ability to differenciate Inactive and Active windows, but I
    am sure those are being worked on. There is so much I could post but I am
    tired. But I just want to say look at the opportunities, and stop looking at
    the temporary issues that will be fixed as development progresses towards
    RTM.
    --
    --
    Andre
    Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Apr 23, 2006
    #18
  19. Do a Google search for TweakVista ;))
    --
    Pierre Szwarc
    Paris, France
    PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
    ------------------------------------------------
    Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
    ------------------------------------------------

    "Ed Dixon" <> a écrit dans le message de ...
    | Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind
    | about the GUI changes:
    [snip]
    | 4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more
    | difficult.
    |
    |
    | It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a
    | Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha
    | level products.
     
    Pierre Szwarc, Apr 23, 2006
    #19
  20. Ed Dixon

    Robert Moir Guest

    And if it ever gets better it will be because of people like Ed enumerating
    their concerns, and not because of folks typing "it stinks" every time they
    see an opportunity.


    --
    --
    Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP
    Blog Site - http://www.robertmoir.com
    Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html
    I'm always surprised at "professionals" who STILL have to be asked "Have you
    checked (event viewer / syslog)".
     
    Robert Moir, Apr 23, 2006
    #20
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