why why why

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by mas despacio, Jun 11, 2007.

  1. mas despacio

    mas despacio Guest

    ...if i went to a hospital i would also see a great number of people
    visiting/helping the sick...i certainly wouldn't see people saying "i'm
    healthy so i don't care about you sick people" and while it's very 'nice' to
    be an mvp the 'average' user of vista isn't. Luckily I have more than average
    knowledge, so my concern is for the people who don't - or is MS banking on
    everyone getting mvp cert so that they can get vista running properly.
     
    mas despacio, Jun 12, 2007
    #21
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  2. mas despacio

    mas despacio Guest

    thanks dan, but as i said totally the same setup except for the vista element
    48mb/s before, now 1mb/s...2.4ghz interference is very low where i have it
    set up and the laptop is sat right next to the router...i could plug it in,
    but then why buy wireless?
     
    mas despacio, Jun 12, 2007
    #22
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  3. mas despacio

    DanS Guest

    First....I'm glad you believe 20 million copies were sold in Feb., thats
    EXACTLY what MS wants you to think.

    But the real question is what is meant by a few hundred posts here about
    problems ? ....is that a day, or what you see total ?

    I see 80 new threads started today (according to the date on my
    newsreader). Of course a few are started by so-called trolls, but only few
    are started that way, but may turn into a pis*ing match.
     
    DanS, Jun 12, 2007
    #23
  4. mas despacio

    DanS Guest

    Again, unfortunately, it is most likely a driver issue first, then the
    slow tranfer Vista issue.

    That is how I would approach it.

    You didn't say what type of wireless adapter you have. I have to assume
    you have the latest and greatest drivers....maybe even try stepping back
    to the XP drivers and see if they work under Vista, many XP drivers do
    work.

    The other choice is to try to find drivers form another mfg that
    incorporate the exact same chipset as the one you have, if it's a
    PCI/PCMCIA card, that may work better in Vista.

    It's a *longshot*, but wasting an hour of time (out of the day and a half
    transfer time) may be worth it if you can find something that works.
     
    DanS, Jun 12, 2007
    #24
  5. mas despacio

    KristleBawl Guest

    First, If you would like some assistance from the experienced power users
    that volunteer their free time to help solve your problems, all you need do
    is ask.

    It appears that you are using Home Premium OEM, meaning the computer
    manufacturer is responsible for tech support, repair, replacement or refund.
    MS sold Vista to them, and they resold it to you. Once the computer
    manufacturer owned the right to use that copy of Vista, they were legally
    allowed to alter to it by installing additional third-party software, such
    as AntiVirus, and customization, a.k.a. branding.

    Now, it's your turn to install, tweak, customize, modify, reconfigure and
    optimize the final system to do your tasks the way you want it to do them.

    This is Vista, not XP. Some things work differently.

    Now, did have a question to ask, or a specific problem you would like to
    solve?

    KB

    "mas despacio" wrote in message
    news:...
     
    KristleBawl, Jun 12, 2007
    #25
  6. Did the new laptop come with Windows Vista?
    If so, there are probably may programs installed by the OEM slowing
    the computer down.
    Also make sure you have all the latest hardware drivers.
    Do not assume new means you have the latest drivers.
    Contact the OEM and have them fix it or consider returning the laptop.
    If you installed Windows Vista, perhaps something happened during the
    install.

    Is Windows Vista OEM?
    If yes, that explains why you can not get support from Microsoft.
    It is deliberate since Microsoft does not support OEM.
    You will need to contact the OEM for support.
    No Microsoft support is one of many reasons you pay less for OEM than
    retail.

    I have Windows Vista successfully running on an older laptop
    Toshiba Tecra S1, 1.6 GHz, 500 MB RAM.
    More RAM will improve it, but for now it works OK as it is.

    Windows Vista does not need to be recalled.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jun 12, 2007
    #26
  7. "is that not MS sherking its responsibility"
    Not at all.
    The OEM sells gets and sells the licenses cheaper than retail so the
    OEM and not Microsoft provide support.
    One of the many reasons you paid less for your OEM than retail.

    "dell are now supplying new pc's with xp - again"
    Dell never stopped selling computers with Windows XP.
    However it did add models that will be available with Windows XP.
    This is the similar to what happened when Windows XP was released.
    The prior OS was available for a while.
    While the retail channels had them available for a few years.
    I expect the same to happen with Windows Vista.
    This is nothing new.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jun 12, 2007
    #27
  8. Maybe not, but I could quickly put together a short list of hot head
    MVPs that should be recalled, dismissed or simply shown the door.
     
    Adam Albright, Jun 12, 2007
    #28
  9. You should change your name to Saturn, since nearly everybody seems to
    do rings around your limited knowledge.

    Microsoft employees wrote Windows. Shove the crap it is the OEMs
    problem that Vista sucks. That's like blaming the car dealer if you
    bought a model known to have problems. The problem lies with WHO built
    the car or WHO wrote the software. Write that down, so you don't
    forget.
    Reason? You mean excuses. I don't know of any other product that the
    MANUFACTURER doesn't stand behind when it breaks.
     
    Adam Albright, Jun 12, 2007
    #29
  10. But why should the average user have to "fine tune" (and I dispute that that
    term is appropriate) anything? Sure, we've gotten folks used to
    uninstalling unneeded apps that come pre-installed from the manufacturers,
    but to get Vista to perform well on many networks and in many homes, it
    often requires:

    -- Disabling IPv6
    -- Applying a manually downloaded update to XP machines
    -- Disabling autotuning
    -- Disabling several unneeded and inappropriate services
    -- Searching for updated drivers from device manufacturers
    -- Disabling indexing (currently one of the most popular "tweaks")

    The average user or really-small business "administrator" (I use the term
    loosely) knows nothing about those things, and they are a big part of the
    market. (Sure, I like making money helping them to do new things with their
    computers -- and they like it, too. But I dread those calls when they say
    "my computer is broken!", because when they're not happy, neither am I. And
    I'll often have to charge them more for setups. They're not gonna like
    that.)

    Even XP Home, at the time the most complex OS ever released for average
    users, could be set up in the home -- and in many small businesses --
    without much help. But even though some folks have satisfactory experiences
    with stand-alone Vista machines right out of the box, as soon as they hook
    it up to a network they often have problems (I won't even mention the bugs).
    While Vista may have satisfactory backwards compatibility with lots of
    software, the same can't be said for networked implementations (Vista often
    thinks that a 2000 server -- and there are still tons of production machines
    in use -- is a router). Not just money is involved here; time is a big
    factor, too.

    I just think it was released too soon, and that a lot of beta testers'
    feedback was ignored (and it appears that some often-experienced problems
    didn't emerge until the RTM came out).

    Someday -- maybe after a service pack or two -- it will begin to live up to
    its potential. But right now, I think that most businesses should wait.

    Hopefully the next OS will let us do what Vista /really/ should have done:
    get rid of our keyboards! But Microsoft decided to give Vista an extra
    layer of makeup instead.
     
    David Dickinson, Jun 12, 2007
    #30
  11. Except that what you see here is a minute fraction of the problems that
    folks are having. A very small number of users of /any/ OS even know -- or
    want to know -- that newsgroups exist!
     
    David Dickinson, Jun 12, 2007
    #31
  12. Except that those machines that you say were "mis-configured" worked great
    until Vista was added to the LAN.
     
    David Dickinson, Jun 12, 2007
    #32
  13. mas despacio

    Lang Murphy Guest

    Go to -any- support resource... Ubuntu's forums, Apple's forums... and -all-
    you will find are folks with problems. That's what these forums/NG's are
    for. Don't be surprised that there are folks having problems here... that's
    why they come here. Well, that's why most of them come here. Others come
    here to post bull-in-a-china-shop screeds. Ignore them. They aren't here to
    assist anyone.

    Lang
     
    Lang Murphy, Jun 12, 2007
    #33
  14. mas despacio

    John Locke Guest

    On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:33:01 -0700, mas despacio <mas
    Did you invoke the task manager just to see what's eating CPU and
    memory ? Some anti-virus and anti-spyware programs can really
    kill performance if they are running in real time mode.
     
    John Locke, Jun 12, 2007
    #34
  15. mas despacio

    Jay Guest


    I saw the same tired old posts (and possibly people) when XP was released.
    No doubt there was similar when 95 hit the shelves.
    People want to be able to configure, they want security and they want it
    just as they need it - out of the box!

    I am new to Vista so one of the first things I did was subscribe to this
    group to learn how to do now what I used to do then.
    One day when I can be bothered I'll research how to program the DVD recorder
    attached to my TV.
    I purchased Vista knowing there would be a learning curve and probable
    teething problems. That was my choice.
    If Windows is as bad as some would have you believe then people would be
    flocking to *nix OSs in their droves.
    After all it's mostly free isn't it? (TCO aside)

    Jay
     
    Jay, Jun 12, 2007
    #35
  16. mas despacio

    S2ie Guest

    everyone I know that got vista has reverted back or made a dual boot! lol

    The people who ask me now are advised to keep away from vista.

    Im not kidding.. vista is a dinosaur just as the OP said
     
    S2ie, Jun 12, 2007
    #36
  17. mas despacio

    Jon Guest


    Well I suppose the short answer is that Vista is really written for the
    hardware of the future, when 'fine tuning' won't be as necessary.

    I suspect MS have gambled on faster and more powerful hardware being
    available in a year or so, when our present supermachines will seem like
    pitiful relics of the past. But impressions of Vista are being formed NOW,
    so whether that gamble will pay off or not remains to be seen.

    Anyhow we have to deal with the realities of today.


    Yes, it annoys me to see 1.5 Ghz laptops with 512mb RAM (roughly the
    standard specs for average user's new laptop in the UK) being cynically sold
    as suitable for running the default configuration of Vista.


    Is it possible to get Vista flying on those specs? Yes, it certainly is. Is
    the average user ever likely to see high performance levels on those specs?
    No, they're not.


    And yes, there's a massive amount of misinformation being bandied around at
    the moment, for which at least 2 of those 'tweaks' illustrate the point
    well. There's certainly no need to disable indexing in Vista (when it's
    working correctly it has backoff technology built in) and the LLTD download
    for XP has zero functional effect afaik on networking, other than
    the trivial appearance of an icon in the Vista network map. I'm no expert on
    networking, but mho the value of disabling ipv6 is also questionable.

    Yes the idea of the keyboardless computer is an exciting prospect, for
    which Vista's voice recognition + programmable search / Natural Language
    searching etc is a major step in the direction of.
     
    Jon, Jun 12, 2007
    #37
  18. mas despacio

    Jay Guest

    Excellent that you have come to a decision.
    So we won't be hearing from you here anymore then.

    Jay
     
    Jay, Jun 12, 2007
    #38
  19. Ye gads. If you figure it out, let me know. I may know how to set up a VPN
    to remotely control an ISA 2006 firewall or administer a domain, but now yer
    talkin' way over my head. (And I still can't figure out that button on my
    cell phone with the little squiggly circle.)
    I think the reason that more folks don't go to *nix or Macs is because an
    operating system's user interface is really like a visual language, and it's
    hard to learn a new language (especially when you're older). And most folks
    just don't care (and shouldn't have to care) what OS they use as long as
    they can do some basic stuff: Fill in the forms for their reports at work,
    play that hot new game, shop for <fill in favorite toy here> on the web, and
    chat with their friends. As long as it /mostly/ works, they'll avoid
    throwing everything they're familiar with over the side (which is a
    cost-effective point of view). Windows -- as a visual "language" -- has
    such a huge foothold in the world that it probably would have to take the
    collapse of Microsoft to get sizable numbers of people to change OSs -- an
    event that would be catastrophic for everyone, at this point.

    It's not Vista's learning curve that is the problem. When you get to the
    guts of it, it's really mostly the new prominence of the folder tree in the
    UI that is different (which I think should have been promoted years ago).
    And most folks aren't going to have many problems doing what they want to do
    with computers (a lot of folks -- a majority of users, I think -- will never
    even open Control Panel) if they use Vista.

    Some aspects of Vista's folder navigation system will always be confusing to
    the average user who ventures outside of his or her personal folders
    (intuition is very important in UI design, and a some important things were
    just badly designed), and that can be dangerously expensive for them if you
    consider the potential costs of data loss. But putting that aside, it's the
    folks who /must/ open Control Panel and who live in Administrative Tools who
    always see the biggest problems and have to deal with them.
     
    David Dickinson, Jun 12, 2007
    #39
  20. mas despacio

    Jay Guest

    I agree.
    Given my work and PC usage I am in and out of computer management, control
    panel, IIS fairly often.
    When I saw what confronted me I knew it was time to come here (and
    elsewhere) to get up to speed.
    Were I an average user who indulged in (only) what you listed then I would
    more than likely go to a friends house or department store and check out
    Vista there before shelling out $ for it.

    Jay

     
    Jay, Jun 12, 2007
    #40
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