Windows 64-bit is awful.

Discussion in 'Windows 64 Bit' started by Disgusted, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. Disgusted

    MsPincushion Guest

    So hey, do you have to be so ugly? This is supposed to be a place to
    come and get help not words like that from YOU!
     
    MsPincushion, Jun 7, 2006
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  2. Disgusted

    Working Fine Guest

    Very entertaining thread... Probably some truth in the frustrations listed
    within but there are many who are happy with XP Pro 64 and I'm one of them...

    I dual-boot when necessary to XP Pro 32 for use of my Web-Cam for family
    occasionally, and also to Scan, due to Epson still not having written their
    64bit drivers for one of their late model, high-end scanners, that I need for
    my business, (Epson Perfection 3200 Photo), but other than those 2 pieces of
    hardware all my applications and hardware runs fine...

    I do Architectural AutoCAD 3D rendering and design using Autodesk’s
    Architectural Desktop 2006 which is written for 64bit... I've also run a
    very busy, full time PC\Server repair business for the last 4 years... My
    Music recording software is Cakewalks latest Sonar 5.0 also written for
    64bit... MS Office works fine, Outlook Express works fine, except for the
    spell checker, which I've read does not work under this 64bit OS... In my
    spare time I record multitrack vocals and guitar work in both Sonar listed
    above, as well as the latest Band-in-the-box software, and again it works
    fine with Pro 64... For much of my business Artwork I'm using the latest
    Adobe CS (Photoshop) which runs faultless... Latest Messenger runs smooth as
    does my Nero DVD\CD burning software... My sound system is a 3 year old
    Creative Labs Audigy-2 which has great 64bit drivers and runs just fine...

    I went out of the way this time to really build myself a nice system to
    carry me into the near future a bit, so I'm now using 2: ASUS 7800GTX, 512mb,
    graphics boards running in SLI mode and you just cannot believe the Frame
    Rates I'm getting on all my games which have their Graphics setting maxed out
    in every way possible at 1600x1200\32 resolution... To do my AutoCAD
    rendering I'm running 8 GB of 4200 SDRAM on this system...

    My Motherboard is the Tyan Thunder K8WE (S2895) with v1.03 BIOS... This Mobo
    supports both of my, DUAL, DUAL-CORE, AMD Opteron 270 processors, which
    along with the 8GB Ram, and Dual 7800GTX's Graphics boards makes this thing
    the fastest PC I have ever seen, and it's been rock solid stable for the 6
    months since I built it for work... This System requires the 650watt power
    supply I had to buy to drive everything including both of the Dual-Boot hard
    drives which are Western Digital 250GB SATA2's... DVD Burner and DVD Reader
    drive... Monitor is a 21" Viewsonic and Sound System is a 7.1 Creative
    Speaker setup...

    I didn't mean to go on so about my new Workstation but I'm really pleased
    with how lightning fast it is, as well as stable in both Win XP Pro 64 or Pro
    32 OS's... Its 15 seconds flat from Power On to Workable Desktop... I can
    only guess how fast the new Quad-Quad-Core Opteron's will be with up to 6 of
    the new 7950GTX video boards installed... Read some of the early reviews
    that are out there on the Gamers who are running these Quad Dual-Core Opteron
    850's equipped with 6, 7950GTX boards...

    I have put about $4500 into this Workstation... The high-pro components
    today are not cheap as we all know, ie: $300 power supplies, $500 Mobo's, $1k
    Graphics boards, etc... The sky's the limit for some of which I'm not one,
    and if it weren’t for the fact that my accountant is writing off all this as
    business gear, which it is, except for the games, joystick, webcam, etc, I
    wouldn't have factored the expense into my budget... but I'm sure glad I did
    as it's an absolute kick...

    As for those rare times I get to spend a few hours gaming, my Flight Sim
    2004 runs great, as does Battlefield 2, Medal of Honor, Far Cry, FEAR, Ghost
    Recon Advanced Warfighter, plus several others... I did buy a new Logitech
    Force3DPro Joystick which is 64bit... Most importantly since McAfee
    VirusScan does not have a 64bit Virus checker yet, after a year, I did a
    touch of research and read how many people were very satisfied with ESET's
    NOD64 so that's what I'm using for Virus protection along with Spybot... I
    have cross checked all my drives with the latest McAfee VirusScan from my
    other XP Pro32 drive and the NOD has never missed a Virus... Yes I'd say I'm
    pleased with XP Pro 64...
     
    Working Fine, Jul 3, 2006
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  3. Disgusted

    Larry Hodges Guest

    What a beautiful system. I'm jealeous...

    -Larry
     
    Larry Hodges, Jul 3, 2006
  4. Congrat's - there are things you drool over to get, this looks like
    something I would drool over to be having.

    As for the spellchecker, this depends on the office software and this is
    fresh out in a Beta version -don't know if it's 64bit, but it can't be long
    before it is.


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Jul 3, 2006
  5. Disgusted

    Zapper Guest

    That is an awesome rig..but....64 bit is not just for the high end machines
    anymore.

    I am running an AMD 64 3800+($150), on an MSI K8N-SLIf mobo($120), with 4GB
    of Ram($320).
    Running Vista for basic web stuff and gaming it rocks.
     
    Zapper, Jul 3, 2006
  6. XP Pro x64 has been an excellent base for my test box because I can install
    both Vista x86 and x64 from the XP x64 desktop. It has been a great system.
    My XP Pro SP2 boxes can't keep up with it. I have yet to blue screen XP Pro
    x64. I suspect because 32bit drivers won't work on it so I am saved from
    the garbage drivers.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 3, 2006
  7. Disgusted

    Working Fine Guest

    Colin... Hi, Both you and Zapper are right, it is a good system if you have
    the right components that have good drivers written for them as it sounds
    like we do...

    Zapper you are right and I didn't take time to write that Win XP Pro 64 and
    Dual-Cores are not just for Engineers running high $ software that requires
    massive floating point processing... I've always found it interesting that
    my creation of an AutoCAD rendering of a 30 second, hi-res movie, which takes
    massive multi processing power is also required by today’s hi-performance
    games... So if a very fast single core, or a slower dual-core setup works
    very well with Audio\Video movie creation etc, it also will work very well
    with today's high-end games...

    If a person goes and looks at the 3DMark06 site you will see that the test
    results of many single core processors are faster than the Dual-Cores is
    "Some" areas but in others the Dual-Cores blow the Single-Cores out of the
    water... or where ever... ha.

    They both have their strong points but if you go read around the web you'll
    find the Single-Cores life is very close to its end of manufacturing...
    Quad-Dual's and Quad-Quad's will rule as will Dual-Mobo-Dual-Quads for at
    least few months until the next generation is in production, and this
    includes graphics boards as well as all other performance components...
    SPECfp® rate2000 – The Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor Model 280 outperforms
    the dual-core Xeon 2.8GHz processor by 76 percent... I used to order nothing
    but the other name brand processors for all my Cad engineers because years
    ago the AMD's lacked the vital floating point processing my Audio\Visual apps
    required but now as far as I'm concerned the AMD's are the hands down proven
    King's of floating point... I used to have to create high-res, 3D
    Architectural movies. for sales presentations that I created on my Intel P4,
    2.77Ghz machine with 1.5GB ram and it took me from Sunday night at 5pm until
    Wednesday evening at 5pm to automatically complete all the 1000 renderings
    needed to make this short 30 second movie at 30fps... Now with this
    Dual-Dual-Core Opteron machine as well as the Dual 7800GTX's, which work very
    much with the processors to render the graphic images I need to create the
    movies, it now takes 22 minutes total to do what use to take 3 full days of
    un-interrupted processing from a true Intel P4... Now this was not a Xeon
    processor but still 3 days versus 22 minutes... I about fell over with the
    first movie I made and I couldn't wait to start playing games at that
    point...

    Yes... Foolishly I built this new system right in the middle of a big
    Architectural project that had many people waiting for their product...
    Somehow it all clicked and I got very lucky and completed the project but
    I'll tell you it was the increased ability to process massive floating point
    graphics data in determining the infinite light reflecting 3D sources that
    saved the day... These little Architectural projects can pay $4k for 2 weeks
    work so the expense of a fast Dual, or Quad Core system, can pay for itself
    with the very first contracted project as this one did... Then you can sit
    back and play Flight Simulator 2004 at 175fps... Landings are super
    smooth... ha... Convincing my wife however, of the importance of this
    upgrade was another story... Let us all remember the Single Cores and 32bit
    processing with due respect... Just kidding everyone... I still have 3
    other XP Pro 32 workstations which we use in our business everyday and they
    are solid as can be...
     
    Working Fine, Jul 3, 2006
  8. Ah-, the age old framerate controversy. . .well, on my mortal XP 64 3000+ I
    can make smooth landings in 15fps. What you can have from your 175fps,
    though, (I suspect) is that you might fly 'stutter free' in 100% true
    weather conditions and everything else jacked up to 100% as well. That is
    the benefit of raw power. That I don't have. (sigh)

    I have had the MS FS since version 4.0 and they were all amazing in their
    time - only FS2000 was not good at all. There just wasn't hardware around
    that could run it - nothing that I could buy anyway. Then, when hardware
    surfaced that could drive it to 45fps it suddenly became very good and at
    55 - 75fps you could add scenery complexity and weather almost as you liked.

    But something happened with FS2k2. I don't have any inside information to
    support this, but I am absolutely certain that they made it 'multithreaded'.
    They separated the input from the frame display. Earlier, for each frame you
    had to have code that checked the keyoard and mouse and joystick for input,
    as well as internal data looping back as input, so when effective framerate
    dropped below 24fps, you couldn't control the aircraft any longer, because
    it stopped processing input - sometimes processing input in large chunks
    betweeen frames. Suddenly the aircraft had become flyable in 15fps - not
    pretty, but you could do it, and beyond 24fps only the scenery and weather
    generation could disturb it. It wasn't perfect, because scenery and weather
    did weigh it down, but with FS2k4 this problem is pretty much gone, except
    for the 100% conditions.

    I expect - if they are smart - that the next version will have a even higher
    level of multithreading implemented. Perhaps separating weather and scenery
    generation away from everything else. That way the new inventions your
    machine can take advantage of right away, things that my 'next-to-be' will
    still be panting over. But the smooth landings are here to stay, nothing can
    disturb them, heck - a cell phone could do that if it could run it!


    Tony. . . ;0o
     
    Tony Sperling, Jul 3, 2006
  9. Disgusted

    Larry Hodges Guest

    Larry Hodges, Jul 3, 2006
  10. What put me over the edge about Intel was the power consumption (heat
    dissipation) problem. I just got fed up with worrying about the temps. The
    new Intel initiatives look like they will help, but in the meantime I have
    gotten to like the AMD chips I have now.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 3, 2006
  11. Disgusted

    Larry Hodges Guest

    What got to me was Intel's arrogance. They thought their shit didn't stink,
    and it showed in their price structure and their attitude toward vendors.
    It was kind of cool to see AMD for the first time in history (Sept '05)
    outsell Intel for systems shipped. That had to hurt.

    However, the nice thing about the competition between AMD and Intel is that
    we the consumers benefit. I have no complaints.

    I'm currently running an Athlon x2 64 3800+. With the U320 SCSI in RAID,
    it's plenty fast for me. I can't see me changing anything for a year or so.

    -Larry
     
    Larry Hodges, Jul 4, 2006
  12. Disgusted

    Working Fine Guest

    Tony - I have to tell you that even as fast as this new workstation is, FS9
    still stutters... I really expected that to have gone away but according to
    all the FS forums its just part of FS2K4... I too hope that the much
    anticipated FSX that is coming out will correct that...

    Now... I know this isn't part of this thread but I'll try to send this
    anyway... I live in Portland and helped write a realistic Photo Scenery
    package last year for our Portland area as well as our KPDX airport... There
    is a new Portland scenery package almost ready for sale that is being created
    by probably the finest scenery designer in the world today and if you love FS
    then please treat yourself to the pics and movie samples at the link I'm
    providing... I really do hope this link will work as you just will not
    believe your eyes as to how real this new Portland Scenery package for FS9
    is...
    Best regards... Bob

    Here's the link...

    http://www.flightscenery.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=dc8b027b70d5472bc2f41763529e3578

    If this one doesn't work go here then on to the Support Forum link and look
    for the Portland Forum... http://www.flightscenery.com/news.htm
     
    Working Fine, Jul 4, 2006
  13. Disgusted

    Working Fine Guest

    Larry and Colin... I agree with you both... Whoever provides my engineering
    group with the most stable, powerful, bang-for-the-buck, Processors will get
    my purchase at the time I'm building systems... Both Intel and AMD have
    provided me with great products time and again since 1986... Also in running
    my PC\Server business full time since 2k2 and part time since 1986 I have yet
    to ever witness a failed Intel or AMD processor... We know they do fail but
    I have never had a client with one... I have had hundreds of failed Mobo's,
    Video Boards, Hard Drives, CD\DVD's and an occasional burnt ram chip fail on
    various clients systems but never a Processor... I have seen many slow
    Processors though... ha
    Bob
     
    Working Fine, Jul 4, 2006
  14. Yes, it's the heat load in this office. Used to have a dual Xeon in here. In
    the winter, it heated the room. In the summer...

    A lot like having an Aga in your office...
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 4, 2006
  15. * BMcC:

    [Problems with Windowsxp Pro x64 Edition]

    Well, I'm running Windowsxp Pro x64 for around a year now (since it came
    out) and have yet to experience any problems with it. Applications vary
    from simple things like Internet and Office over 3D action games until
    MCAD and CFD stuff. My current system is a HP xw8200 workstation (2x
    XEON 3.6GHz, 13GB DDR2 ECC, 3x250GB SATA disks in RAID0 on a Promise
    SX4300 PCI-X SATA RAID controller, PNY Verto 7800GTX 256MB) is
    rock-solid with Winxp x64. All my hardware works perfectly as expected,
    but then I don't have anything fancy in it like TV card etc. The machine
    also gets rarely rebooted, at the end of the day I just put it in
    standby (suspend to RAM). Never had to reboot due to any hickup or any
    other trouble. Before I left (I'm currently on the road for my job) the
    new system I ordered arrived. It's a HP xw9300 workstation with two
    Opteron 285, 16GB RAM and two Quadro FX4500 512MB gfx cards in SLI
    config. Sadly the cards were delayed and arrived after I left. But
    before leaving I had time to install Windowsxp x64 on the new system and
    do some tests with it, and even on this machine Windowsxp x64 works
    flawlessly. I can't wait until I return home to set the new system up.
    If everything works as expected the machine will probably be upgraded to
    32GB.

    One thing to note is that Windowsxp x64 is really not for everything. I
    use it simply because I run 64bit application that use lots of RAM, and
    regarding desktop Windows versions only Windowsxp x64 can make real use
    of the RAM configuration of my systems. Honestly, if I wouldn't use more
    than 4GB RAM and some real 64bit application I probably would have
    stayed with 32bit Windows as for common tasks x64 has absolutely no
    advantage. Even more, the driver situation is just bad, and there still
    are issues with some programs (especially older ones).

    So if you have much RAM and 64bit applications go with x64, otherwise
    better stick with 32bit Windows...

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Jul 4, 2006
  16. Disgusted

    Working Fine Guest

    Yes Charlie I can very much relate to your heat problem... With this new
    650watt power supply and the 4 Opteron Processors as well as the 2: 7800GTX
    Graphics cards and 4: 2GB SDRAM chips of which you don't want to touch, plus
    my wife who for the last 15 years of our 35 year marriage has been in
    Menopause and who you could fry an egg on at any given time of the day, all
    of which are putting off great amounts of heat, have made me conclude that I
    need no furnace in my home what so ever... My office here in Portland in the
    summer even with the air conditioning on, reminds me of Tucson... ha
    Bob

    PS: I'm not water cooling like a lot of high-end gamers but my system does
    have 11 internal fans all running within the tower... The power supply has 2,
    each 7800 has one, each processor comes with one, the tower came with a
    couple in the front ahead of the SATA2 drives and some additional ones in the
    top, sides and back...
     
    Working Fine, Jul 4, 2006
  17. Disgusted

    palavering Guest

    It has been more than 3 months since your original post. I hope by now that
    you have found all that you need in Win XP 64-bit Edition. I only recently
    purchased an Amd ATHON DUAL CORE x 64. I downloaded Win 64 and just as you
    had trouble with drivers, I too had to search the Internet. I have, however,
    been able to locate almost everything I need, including some small apps that
    I was certain wouldn't work--but they did! My disappointment came when I
    couldn't install some of the latest betas from Microsoft. But I think in
    short order that they too will be available.
    I am impressed with XP 64; it's the first system I've put on my PC without
    it crashing or freezing frequently. It appears to be very stable, much like
    Win XP Pro is now.
    I have tried Vista Ultimate Beta 2 and it needs a lot of attention. If they
    complete the OS project and release it in January, I'll know that they rushed
    it through. Vista is pretty (I have an ATI 1600 512 MB card), but the
    operating system has lots of bugs.
    Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the info on this site.
     
    palavering, Jul 4, 2006
  18. Disgusted

    HyperInferno Guest

    Flaws in the 64-bit system are to be expected. This system is not made for
    the average user, which is why it is only sold in OEM versions (at least
    thats how it was when i bought mine). The system is designed to be a way to
    start the progression over to completely 64-bit computers. More and more
    developers are starting to make 64-bit versions of thier programs. Valve's
    Half-Life 2 runs far better on a 64-bit computer than on a 32-bit. The
    emulation for most programs is incredeble. Unfortunately, 64-bit systems
    CANNOT use 32-bit drivers, so if your devices do not work, that is the fault
    of the company you bought it from for not developing 64-bit drivers. Anyone
    who buys a new system without researching it first deserves any troubles they
    run into. I researched this OS, and bought all my hardware to fit its driver
    needs, and it runs beautifully.
     
    HyperInferno, Jul 5, 2006
  19. * HyperInferno:
    If with "64-bit computer" you mean "AMD64" such as Athlon64 or Opteron
    then you are right. But that's not because 64bit is faster but simply
    because these processors also got lots of improvements for 32bit
    software over their predecessors. With intel that's not the case, a P4
    with EM64T is basically not faster than one without EM64T.

    As to the 64bit versions of HL2 and FarCry: these are 64bit executables
    that arrived after the games have been released, and also here most of
    the performance increase just comes from lots of general optimizations
    and not from the fact that they are 64bit. The same optimizations would
    have been possible with the 32bit version.
    That's definitely right, but sadly users rarely research before buying
    anything.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Jul 5, 2006
  20. It is sold OEM only not because of flaws but because of the device support
    issue. It just wouldn't work as a boxed edition because too many buyers
    would make the mistake of not researching device and software compatibility
    before installing. I doubt that salespersons in most of the retail outlets
    could effectively advise prospective buyers even if the buyers had the sense
    to ask.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 6, 2006
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