Windows 64-bit is awful.

So hey, do you have to be so ugly? This is supposed to be a place to
come and get help not words like that from YOU!

 

Very entertaining thread... Probably some truth in the frustrations listed
within but there are many who are happy with XP Pro 64 and I'm one of them...

I dual-boot when necessary to XP Pro 32 for use of my Web-Cam for family
occasionally, and also to Scan, due to Epson still not having written their
64bit drivers for one of their late model, high-end scanners, that I need for
my business, (Epson Perfection 3200 Photo), but other than those 2 pieces of
hardware all my applications and hardware runs fine...

I do Architectural AutoCAD 3D rendering and design using Autodesk’s
Architectural Desktop 2006 which is written for 64bit... I've also run a
very busy, full time PC\Server repair business for the last 4 years... My
Music recording software is Cakewalks latest Sonar 5.0 also written for
64bit... MS Office works fine, Outlook Express works fine, except for the
spell checker, which I've read does not work under this 64bit OS... In my
spare time I record multitrack vocals and guitar work in both Sonar listed
above, as well as the latest Band-in-the-box software, and again it works
fine with Pro 64... For much of my business Artwork I'm using the latest
Adobe CS (Photoshop) which runs faultless... Latest Messenger runs smooth as
does my Nero DVD\CD burning software... My sound system is a 3 year old
Creative Labs Audigy-2 which has great 64bit drivers and runs just fine...

I went out of the way this time to really build myself a nice system to
carry me into the near future a bit, so I'm now using 2: ASUS 7800GTX, 512mb,
graphics boards running in SLI mode and you just cannot believe the Frame
Rates I'm getting on all my games which have their Graphics setting maxed out
in every way possible at 1600x1200\32 resolution... To do my AutoCAD
rendering I'm running 8 GB of 4200 SDRAM on this system...

My Motherboard is the Tyan Thunder K8WE (S2895) with v1.03 BIOS... This Mobo
supports both of my, DUAL, DUAL-CORE, AMD Opteron 270 processors, which
along with the 8GB Ram, and Dual 7800GTX's Graphics boards makes this thing
the fastest PC I have ever seen, and it's been rock solid stable for the 6
months since I built it for work... This System requires the 650watt power
supply I had to buy to drive everything including both of the Dual-Boot hard
drives which are Western Digital 250GB SATA2's... DVD Burner and DVD Reader
drive... Monitor is a 21" Viewsonic and Sound System is a 7.1 Creative
Speaker setup...

I didn't mean to go on so about my new Workstation but I'm really pleased
with how lightning fast it is, as well as stable in both Win XP Pro 64 or Pro
32 OS's... Its 15 seconds flat from Power On to Workable Desktop... I can
only guess how fast the new Quad-Quad-Core Opteron's will be with up to 6 of
the new 7950GTX video boards installed... Read some of the early reviews
that are out there on the Gamers who are running these Quad Dual-Core Opteron
850's equipped with 6, 7950GTX boards...

I have put about $4500 into this Workstation... The high-pro components
today are not cheap as we all know, ie: $300 power supplies, $500 Mobo's, $1k
Graphics boards, etc... The sky's the limit for some of which I'm not one,
and if it weren’t for the fact that my accountant is writing off all this as
business gear, which it is, except for the games, joystick, webcam, etc, I
wouldn't have factored the expense into my budget... but I'm sure glad I did
as it's an absolute kick...

As for those rare times I get to spend a few hours gaming, my Flight Sim
2004 runs great, as does Battlefield 2, Medal of Honor, Far Cry, FEAR, Ghost
Recon Advanced Warfighter, plus several others... I did buy a new Logitech
Force3DPro Joystick which is 64bit... Most importantly since McAfee
VirusScan does not have a 64bit Virus checker yet, after a year, I did a
touch of research and read how many people were very satisfied with ESET's
NOD64 so that's what I'm using for Virus protection along with Spybot... I
have cross checked all my drives with the latest McAfee VirusScan from my
other XP Pro32 drive and the NOD has never missed a Virus... Yes I'd say I'm
pleased with XP Pro 64...

 

What a beautiful system. I'm jealeous...

-Larry

 

Congrat's - there are things you drool over to get, this looks like
something I would drool over to be having.

As for the spellchecker, this depends on the office software and this is
fresh out in a Beta version -don't know if it's 64bit, but it can't be long
before it is.


Tony. . .

 

That is an awesome rig..but....64 bit is not just for the high end machines
anymore.

I am running an AMD 64 3800+($150), on an MSI K8N-SLIf mobo($120), with 4GB
of Ram($320).
Running Vista for basic web stuff and gaming it rocks.

 

XP Pro x64 has been an excellent base for my test box because I can install
both Vista x86 and x64 from the XP x64 desktop. It has been a great system.
My XP Pro SP2 boxes can't keep up with it. I have yet to blue screen XP Pro
x64. I suspect because 32bit drivers won't work on it so I am saved from
the garbage drivers.

 

Colin... Hi, Both you and Zapper are right, it is a good system if you have
the right components that have good drivers written for them as it sounds
like we do...

Zapper you are right and I didn't take time to write that Win XP Pro 64 and
Dual-Cores are not just for Engineers running high $ software that requires
massive floating point processing... I've always found it interesting that
my creation of an AutoCAD rendering of a 30 second, hi-res movie, which takes
massive multi processing power is also required by today’s hi-performance
games... So if a very fast single core, or a slower dual-core setup works
very well with Audio\Video movie creation etc, it also will work very well
with today's high-end games...

If a person goes and looks at the 3DMark06 site you will see that the test
results of many single core processors are faster than the Dual-Cores is
"Some" areas but in others the Dual-Cores blow the Single-Cores out of the
water... or where ever... ha.

They both have their strong points but if you go read around the web you'll
find the Single-Cores life is very close to its end of manufacturing...
Quad-Dual's and Quad-Quad's will rule as will Dual-Mobo-Dual-Quads for at
least few months until the next generation is in production, and this
includes graphics boards as well as all other performance components...
SPECfp® rate2000 – The Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor Model 280 outperforms
the dual-core Xeon 2.8GHz processor by 76 percent... I used to order nothing
but the other name brand processors for all my Cad engineers because years
ago the AMD's lacked the vital floating point processing my Audio\Visual apps
required but now as far as I'm concerned the AMD's are the hands down proven
King's of floating point... I used to have to create high-res, 3D
Architectural movies. for sales presentations that I created on my Intel P4,
2.77Ghz machine with 1.5GB ram and it took me from Sunday night at 5pm until
Wednesday evening at 5pm to automatically complete all the 1000 renderings
needed to make this short 30 second movie at 30fps... Now with this
Dual-Dual-Core Opteron machine as well as the Dual 7800GTX's, which work very
much with the processors to render the graphic images I need to create the
movies, it now takes 22 minutes total to do what use to take 3 full days of
un-interrupted processing from a true Intel P4... Now this was not a Xeon
processor but still 3 days versus 22 minutes... I about fell over with the
first movie I made and I couldn't wait to start playing games at that
point...

Yes... Foolishly I built this new system right in the middle of a big
Architectural project that had many people waiting for their product...
Somehow it all clicked and I got very lucky and completed the project but
I'll tell you it was the increased ability to process massive floating point
graphics data in determining the infinite light reflecting 3D sources that
saved the day... These little Architectural projects can pay $4k for 2 weeks
work so the expense of a fast Dual, or Quad Core system, can pay for itself
with the very first contracted project as this one did... Then you can sit
back and play Flight Simulator 2004 at 175fps... Landings are super
smooth... ha... Convincing my wife however, of the importance of this
upgrade was another story... Let us all remember the Single Cores and 32bit
processing with due respect... Just kidding everyone... I still have 3
other XP Pro 32 workstations which we use in our business everyday and they
are solid as can be...

 

Ah-, the age old framerate controversy. . .well, on my mortal XP 64 3000+ I
can make smooth landings in 15fps. What you can have from your 175fps,
though, (I suspect) is that you might fly 'stutter free' in 100% true
weather conditions and everything else jacked up to 100% as well. That is
the benefit of raw power. That I don't have. (sigh)

I have had the MS FS since version 4.0 and they were all amazing in their
time - only FS2000 was not good at all. There just wasn't hardware around
that could run it - nothing that I could buy anyway. Then, when hardware
surfaced that could drive it to 45fps it suddenly became very good and at
55 - 75fps you could add scenery complexity and weather almost as you liked.

But something happened with FS2k2. I don't have any inside information to
support this, but I am absolutely certain that they made it 'multithreaded'.
They separated the input from the frame display. Earlier, for each frame you
had to have code that checked the keyoard and mouse and joystick for input,
as well as internal data looping back as input, so when effective framerate
dropped below 24fps, you couldn't control the aircraft any longer, because
it stopped processing input - sometimes processing input in large chunks
betweeen frames. Suddenly the aircraft had become flyable in 15fps - not
pretty, but you could do it, and beyond 24fps only the scenery and weather
generation could disturb it. It wasn't perfect, because scenery and weather
did weigh it down, but with FS2k4 this problem is pretty much gone, except
for the 100% conditions.

I expect - if they are smart - that the next version will have a even higher
level of multithreading implemented. Perhaps separating weather and scenery
generation away from everything else. That way the new inventions your
machine can take advantage of right away, things that my 'next-to-be' will
still be panting over. But the smooth landings are here to stay, nothing can
disturb them, heck - a cell phone could do that if it could run it!


Tony. . . ;0o

 

I was always an Intel guy too. I moved to AMD last year, and have been
loving it. However, Intel is going to be changing their position very soon.
Check out these two articles:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/26/xeon_woodcrest_preys_on_opteron/

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/05/first_benchmarks_conroe_vs_fx-62/

AMD is no longer the price point advantage. And Intel doesn't like taking a
back seat. The next 12 months will be very interesting from a CPU
perspective.

-Larry

 

What put me over the edge about Intel was the power consumption (heat
dissipation) problem. I just got fed up with worrying about the temps. The
new Intel initiatives look like they will help, but in the meantime I have
gotten to like the AMD chips I have now.

 

What got to me was Intel's arrogance. They thought their shit didn't stink,
and it showed in their price structure and their attitude toward vendors.
It was kind of cool to see AMD for the first time in history (Sept '05)
outsell Intel for systems shipped. That had to hurt.

However, the nice thing about the competition between AMD and Intel is that
we the consumers benefit. I have no complaints.

I'm currently running an Athlon x2 64 3800+. With the U320 SCSI in RAID,
it's plenty fast for me. I can't see me changing anything for a year or so.

-Larry

 

Tony - I have to tell you that even as fast as this new workstation is, FS9
still stutters... I really expected that to have gone away but according to
all the FS forums its just part of FS2K4... I too hope that the much
anticipated FSX that is coming out will correct that...

Now... I know this isn't part of this thread but I'll try to send this
anyway... I live in Portland and helped write a realistic Photo Scenery
package last year for our Portland area as well as our KPDX airport... There
is a new Portland scenery package almost ready for sale that is being created
by probably the finest scenery designer in the world today and if you love FS
then please treat yourself to the pics and movie samples at the link I'm
providing... I really do hope this link will work as you just will not
believe your eyes as to how real this new Portland Scenery package for FS9
is...
Best regards... Bob

Here's the link...

http://www.flightscenery.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=dc8b027b70d5472bc2f41763529e3578

If this one doesn't work go here then on to the Support Forum link and look
for the Portland Forum... http://www.flightscenery.com/news.htm

 

Larry and Colin... I agree with you both... Whoever provides my engineering
group with the most stable, powerful, bang-for-the-buck, Processors will get
my purchase at the time I'm building systems... Both Intel and AMD have
provided me with great products time and again since 1986... Also in running
my PC\Server business full time since 2k2 and part time since 1986 I have yet
to ever witness a failed Intel or AMD processor... We know they do fail but
I have never had a client with one... I have had hundreds of failed Mobo's,
Video Boards, Hard Drives, CD\DVD's and an occasional burnt ram chip fail on
various clients systems but never a Processor... I have seen many slow
Processors though... ha
Bob

 

Yes, it's the heat load in this office. Used to have a dual Xeon in here. In
the winter, it heated the room. In the summer...

A lot like having an Aga in your office...

 

* BMcC:

[Problems with Windowsxp Pro x64 Edition]

Well, I'm running Windowsxp Pro x64 for around a year now (since it came
out) and have yet to experience any problems with it. Applications vary
from simple things like Internet and Office over 3D action games until
MCAD and CFD stuff. My current system is a HP xw8200 workstation (2x
XEON 3.6GHz, 13GB DDR2 ECC, 3x250GB SATA disks in RAID0 on a Promise
SX4300 PCI-X SATA RAID controller, PNY Verto 7800GTX 256MB) is
rock-solid with Winxp x64. All my hardware works perfectly as expected,
but then I don't have anything fancy in it like TV card etc. The machine
also gets rarely rebooted, at the end of the day I just put it in
standby (suspend to RAM). Never had to reboot due to any hickup or any
other trouble. Before I left (I'm currently on the road for my job) the
new system I ordered arrived. It's a HP xw9300 workstation with two
Opteron 285, 16GB RAM and two Quadro FX4500 512MB gfx cards in SLI
config. Sadly the cards were delayed and arrived after I left. But
before leaving I had time to install Windowsxp x64 on the new system and
do some tests with it, and even on this machine Windowsxp x64 works
flawlessly. I can't wait until I return home to set the new system up.
If everything works as expected the machine will probably be upgraded to
32GB.

One thing to note is that Windowsxp x64 is really not for everything. I
use it simply because I run 64bit application that use lots of RAM, and
regarding desktop Windows versions only Windowsxp x64 can make real use
of the RAM configuration of my systems. Honestly, if I wouldn't use more
than 4GB RAM and some real 64bit application I probably would have
stayed with 32bit Windows as for common tasks x64 has absolutely no
advantage. Even more, the driver situation is just bad, and there still
are issues with some programs (especially older ones).

So if you have much RAM and 64bit applications go with x64, otherwise
better stick with 32bit Windows...

Benjamin

 

Yes Charlie I can very much relate to your heat problem... With this new
650watt power supply and the 4 Opteron Processors as well as the 2: 7800GTX
Graphics cards and 4: 2GB SDRAM chips of which you don't want to touch, plus
my wife who for the last 15 years of our 35 year marriage has been in
Menopause and who you could fry an egg on at any given time of the day, all
of which are putting off great amounts of heat, have made me conclude that I
need no furnace in my home what so ever... My office here in Portland in the
summer even with the air conditioning on, reminds me of Tucson... ha
Bob

PS: I'm not water cooling like a lot of high-end gamers but my system does
have 11 internal fans all running within the tower... The power supply has 2,
each 7800 has one, each processor comes with one, the tower came with a
couple in the front ahead of the SATA2 drives and some additional ones in the
top, sides and back...

 

It has been more than 3 months since your original post. I hope by now that
you have found all that you need in Win XP 64-bit Edition. I only recently
purchased an Amd ATHON DUAL CORE x 64. I downloaded Win 64 and just as you
had trouble with drivers, I too had to search the Internet. I have, however,
been able to locate almost everything I need, including some small apps that
I was certain wouldn't work--but they did! My disappointment came when I
couldn't install some of the latest betas from Microsoft. But I think in
short order that they too will be available.
I am impressed with XP 64; it's the first system I've put on my PC without
it crashing or freezing frequently. It appears to be very stable, much like
Win XP Pro is now.
I have tried Vista Ultimate Beta 2 and it needs a lot of attention. If they
complete the OS project and release it in January, I'll know that they rushed
it through. Vista is pretty (I have an ATI 1600 512 MB card), but the
operating system has lots of bugs.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the info on this site.

 

Flaws in the 64-bit system are to be expected. This system is not made for
the average user, which is why it is only sold in OEM versions (at least
thats how it was when i bought mine). The system is designed to be a way to
start the progression over to completely 64-bit computers. More and more
developers are starting to make 64-bit versions of thier programs. Valve's
Half-Life 2 runs far better on a 64-bit computer than on a 32-bit. The
emulation for most programs is incredeble. Unfortunately, 64-bit systems
CANNOT use 32-bit drivers, so if your devices do not work, that is the fault
of the company you bought it from for not developing 64-bit drivers. Anyone
who buys a new system without researching it first deserves any troubles they
run into. I researched this OS, and bought all my hardware to fit its driver
needs, and it runs beautifully.

 

* HyperInferno:

If with "64-bit computer" you mean "AMD64" such as Athlon64 or Opteron
then you are right. But that's not because 64bit is faster but simply
because these processors also got lots of improvements for 32bit
software over their predecessors. With intel that's not the case, a P4
with EM64T is basically not faster than one without EM64T.

As to the 64bit versions of HL2 and FarCry: these are 64bit executables
that arrived after the games have been released, and also here most of
the performance increase just comes from lots of general optimizations
and not from the fact that they are 64bit. The same optimizations would
have been possible with the 32bit version.

That's definitely right, but sadly users rarely research before buying
anything.

Benjamin

 

It is sold OEM only not because of flaws but because of the device support
issue. It just wouldn't work as a boxed edition because too many buyers
would make the mistake of not researching device and software compatibility
before installing. I doubt that salespersons in most of the retail outlets
could effectively advise prospective buyers even if the buyers had the sense
to ask.