Windows filesystems

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Drivers' started by Norman Diamond, Aug 22, 2008.

  1. This is pretty trivial because under ordinary conditions it's not likely to
    cause loss of data. But it's still good for laughs.

    If Windows Explorer is showing you a file named ßß.txt and you want to
    rename it to ßs.txt, can you do the rename?

    Windows 98 + FAT file system --> yes
    Windows XP + NTFS file system --> yes
    Windows XP + FAT file system --> no

    By the way, I've been accused of not listening to authorities on Windows.
    The accuser is an authority on Windows. Does anyone know which authority I
    should listen to in order to hear that Windows operates this way? Or in
    order to hear that Windows doesn't operate this way? Did XP listen to a
    higher authority than 98 did?
     
    Norman Diamond, Aug 22, 2008
    #1
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  2. Norman Diamond

    Pavel A. Guest

    Norman, I've just renamed ßß.txt to ßs.txt on a FAT disk on WinXP SP3.
    It worked, and nobody accused me in anything.

    Warm regards,
    --PA
     
    Pavel A., Aug 22, 2008
    #2
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  3. In my experience posting simple screenshots, you'll have to copy and paste
    the following URL into the address bar of your browser. If you just click
    on the link then Yahoo will display an error message instead of the image.

    http://www.geocities.jp/hitotsubishi/xp_fat_rename.png

    This is on Windows XP SP3, 32-bit edition. But I admit that I forgot to try
    it on a foreign language version of Windows XP. A rough translation of the
    error message is: "You[*] cannot change the name of ßß. The specified
    filename already exists. Please specify a different name."

    [* An equally valid rough translation would start with I instead of You.
    It's not 100% clear if Windows is reporting the user's inability or
    Windows's own inability.]


    Norman, I've just renamed ßß.txt to ßs.txt on a FAT disk on WinXP SP3.
    It worked, and nobody accused me in anything.

    Warm regards,
    --PA
     
    Norman Diamond, Aug 22, 2008
    #3
  4. Norman Diamond

    Pavel A. Guest

    Maybe you have some DRM rootkit...
    ( btw, my Win system language is ENU... the hard-die developer's habits... )

    --PA


     
    Pavel A., Aug 23, 2008
    #4
  5. I'm guessing this is short filenames rearing their ugly head.

    The rename may work or not, depending how the dice rolls when they are
    generated. In different language versions of Windows (actually different
    current ANSI codepage) the mapping may differ, creating another uncertanity.

     
    Alexander Grigoriev, Aug 23, 2008
    #5
  6. Norman Diamond

    Pavel A. Guest

    This is easy to test. Just repeat this experiment in a new subdir. -- pa
     
    Pavel A., Aug 23, 2008
    #6
  7. The problem is identical in the root directory and in subdirectories. (This
    is FAT16 so the root directory is special in some ways, but this problem is
    the same in both kinds of directories.)

    The problem might be related to short filenames.

    123456789s.txt --> 123456789ß.txt, no problem.
    1234s6789s.txt --> 1234ß6789s.txt, no problem. This surprised me.
    1234s.txt --> 1234ß.txt, fails.

    The character ß takes two bytes in ANSI code page 932 (Shift-JIS). When I
    have time I'll try to find out if the short name is really being stored
    correctly.


     
    Norman Diamond, Aug 26, 2008
    #7
  8. The character ß takes two bytes in ANSI code page 932 (Shift-JIS).

    Liar.

    The character β (Greek) takes two bytes in ANSI code page 932 (Shift-JIS).
    The character ß (German) does not exist.

    When Windows 98 was able to rename files using ß in either the old name or
    new name, that must have been a foreign language version of Windows 98. I
    vaguely recall Japanese Windows 98 displaying s instead of ß in the
    filename, but don't remember if the file was accessible. If that was a
    short name then fat103.doc says the name should be displayed with _ instead
    of ß and I think the file should be inaccessible. If that was a long name
    then I haven't seen any spec (broken or otherwise).

    I thought I had read somewhere that if a filename conforms to the 8.3 format
    in the current system OEM code page then the file should be created on a FAT
    partition with only a short name, no long name. But some versions of
    Windows create it with a long name anyway. The long name is useful when the
    partition is later viewed in some versions of Windows with a different
    system OEM code page because the long name is stored in Unicode and is
    converted on the fly. But I can't really figure out rules for when Windows
    will create a long name and when it won't.

    Of course if the filename doesn't conform to the 8.3 format then there will
    always be a long name ... except for sometimes when there won't be a long
    name, because Windows uses a reserved byte which fat103.doc says we should
    ignore.

    Looks like a lot more experiments are needed.


     
    Norman Diamond, Aug 27, 2008
    #8
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