Windows Firewall and 3rd Party Firewall

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Security' started by JamesJ, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. JamesJ

    JamesJ Guest

    I'm not sure if I'm ready to have a system without anti-virus software.
    What a concept!!

    James
     
    JamesJ, Apr 22, 2009
    #21
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  2. JamesJ

    JamesJ Guest

    So what you're saying is if I follow your suggestions (which by the way are
    logical)
    I have no chance what-so-ever of contracting a virus? 0

    James
     
    JamesJ, Apr 22, 2009
    #22
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  3. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest


    Maybee. If you want to pay for a product, that in the end only will give you
    more problems than it solves, then is your choice.
    I just tried to give you a more simple and free solution to the malware
    problem.

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #23

  4. Yes, and other forms of malware. I completely disagree with Jesper
    Ravn.

    Certainly you can and should follow safe computing practices. But
    relying on them is foolhardy. No matter how careful you think you are,
    you are always susceptible to making a mistake, particularly on a day
    when you are tired, upset, had a fight with your wife, etc. Backing up
    those safe computing practices with security software is another layer
    of protection, and that layer is good to have. In fact, I think it's
    foolhardy to not have it.
     
    Ken Blake, MVP, Apr 22, 2009
    #24
  5. JamesJ

    JamesJ Guest

    You definitely opened my eyes to a few things.
    I know these suites do eat up resources and of course I do
    appreciate your ideas regarding security.

    James
     
    JamesJ, Apr 22, 2009
    #25
  6. JamesJ

    JamesJ Guest

    Thanks much for the insight.
    Let me sleep on this. It's starting to boggle the little mind I do have.

    James
     
    JamesJ, Apr 22, 2009
    #26
  7. JamesJ

    JamesJ Guest

    More than 2¢ to me.
    Thanks

     
    JamesJ, Apr 22, 2009
    #27
  8. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    Please think out of the box, and stop put fear into peoples mind.
    I could give you a lot of other reassons why you should not use a security
    suite + security utilities.

    Slow computer
    Computer crashes (no backup)
    Slow internet
    Waste of mony and time
    Poor detection rate (false security)
    A lot of support calls/noice in all the security forums today
    etc.

    Educate the users (secure standard setup + backup) instead of giving them a
    lot of junk applications.

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #28
  9. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    I have made this setup on many private computers without any problems
    (family, friends, nabo, etc)
    No more support calls, no more malware period.

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #29
  10. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    And here we go again, right back to the all the problems.
    Next step will be to install Ccleaner 2009 + RegCleaner 2009 + Virtual
    Sandbox 2009 + SuperDuperAnti 2009.
    Just give the young people what they want "fancy and cool removal tools and
    most importent dont think.

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #30
  11. JamesJ

    JamesJ Guest

    Most of that sounds familiar.

     
    JamesJ, Apr 22, 2009
    #31
  12. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    Hi Dave

    I almost agree with you :). keep it simple and do your backup.

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #32
  13. When did we start talking about online scanners and trojans? I was
    talking about *viruses* and local antivirus (detection) scanners.
    I agree wholeheartedly! That is why I said the suggestions were
    excellent. My disagreement is with your statement that antivirus was not
    needed given the proposed scenario.
    Yes, the security suites become "enablers" for the sloppy security
    practices it is human nature to engage in.
    Wrong again - malware needs neither admin rights nor to be "installed"
    in order to function. Viruses, in particular, only need to do what the
    user is able to do.
    Trusted sources can be infected too. You should get your programs only
    from trusted sources *and* scan them for viruses.
    This assumes bad behavior (not thinking) is the only way to allow
    "slipping through" - that is not the case. Even with good behavior
    viruses can slip through, Also - patches often get applied *after* an
    exploit has been circulating for some time. If such an exploit carries
    with it a virus, then you are back to scanning as the only option to
    detect it.
    Harder than you think it is.
     
    FromTheRafters, Apr 22, 2009
    #33
  14. No!

    Vulnerabilities should get patched no matter what other security
    measures are in place. All of the suggestions in Jesper's post are
    good...but you *still* need antivirus. Security suites are often not
    "best in class" for each class of malware they address. Many features in
    suites are "fluff" and give you a false sense of security which is bad
    because you start to feel you can do all kinds of really stupid things
    and your suite will protect you. *You* should protect you - and use
    software to do the things that you cannot do yourself (like searching
    through prospective programs for viruses).
     
    FromTheRafters, Apr 22, 2009
    #34
  15. No, I'm talking about scanning before executing a program.
    I drove a Ford Pinto who's gas tank never blew up. What's your point?
    :eek:)
    Google cannot tell you if a trusted program from a trusted source is or
    is not infected with a known virus. Only AV can do this with any
    reasonable success rate (unless you can read code and recognize viruses
    within programs).
     
    FromTheRafters, Apr 22, 2009
    #35
  16. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    #Ok, lets call it malware, it does not change anything.
    # I also asume that your system its up-to-date. But even if its not SRP
    should prevent any code from executing, please see below.
    #Example of software restriction policy in action:
    #http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=233899
    #Yes and my house and computer could blow up, but that is one of the risk im
    willing to take.
    #Do remember, I have a backup for these disasters.
    #Security is a process, not the right set of tools.
    #What are the chances that my AV will detect it within the right timeframe?.
    #You can always read about the worst scary senarios, But then again, do the
    best you can and then forget about it.
    #No at all.. keep it simple and you will be ok.

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #36
  17. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    Also did you see this?.
    Removing admin rights stymies 92% of Microsoft's bugs
    http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/artic..._rights_stymies_92_microsoft_bugs?fp=2&fpid=1

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #37
  18. JamesJ

    Jesper Ravn Guest

    Why do I want that. SRP will prevent the malware from executing in my
    userprofile.
    LUA will prevent it execute in programfiles and system area.
    Catch-22 situation.
    My point is that the chances are very low for you to get infected from
    trusted sources.
    Also, normal "mr and mrs" do not intstall applications every day.
    Ok, then do the damn online-scan. Here you have 20-30 AV scanners and not
    just one.
    http://virusscan.jotti.org/
    http://www.virustotal.com/

    That could be point 7 on my list. Is it ok with you now :).

    /Jesper
     
    Jesper Ravn, Apr 22, 2009
    #38
  19. JamesJ

    Guest Guest

    I think when Windows Vista detects a third party firewall, it will
    automatically turn off its built-in firewall to avoid conflict.
    Maybe a security suite is not the best solution for personally computer, but
    it is not something bad from my point of view.
    So you can ignore Windows Firewall if you have already had your own firewall
    product.
     
    Guest, Apr 22, 2009
    #39
  20. Yes, it does. Viruses don't often appear as stand alone program files,
    they appear as code attached to preexisting (perhaps trusted) programs.
    It is easy to decide not to execute some new and untrusted program. Not
    so easy to determine if a trusted program has been infected. AV is also
    useful in detecting non-viral malware that modifies (infects or
    'trojanizes') programs by adding malicious functions.

    [snip]
     
    FromTheRafters, Apr 22, 2009
    #40
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