WINS issue

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by Ian, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. Ian

    Ian Guest

    I can ping a server's NetBios name but still cannot see it in My Network
    Places on the server (backup server) after I use nbtstat -RR.

    Thanks
     
    Ian, Feb 18, 2005
    #1
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  2. Ian

    Bill Grant Guest

    The list you see in My network Places is built by the computer browser
    service, not by WINS. The browse list is built by LAN broadcasts. WINS only
    becomes involved if you have multiple subnets or segments which block
    broadcasts.
     
    Bill Grant, Feb 19, 2005
    #2
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  3. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Thanks. Yes, The servers are on different subnets and they are using the same
    Primary WINS server and Secondary WINS server. Any idea? Thanks.
     
    Ian, Feb 20, 2005
    #3
  4. Ian

    Todd J Heron Guest

    As Bill said, browsing across subnets (My Network Places) requires a WINS
    server and a domain master browser (domainname 1B entry in WINS). You said
    you had WINS server in place, so now follow all the steps below to determine
    why the server is not showing up in My Network Places.

    1) First, NetBIOS over TCP/IP must be enabled if you want a computer to show
    up in My Network Places. If NetBIOS over TCP/IP is enabled but the computer
    still cannot be seen, go to step #2.
    2) File & Print Sharing must be enabled
    3) No host-based firewall blocking the NetBIOS ports 137, 138 & 139
    4) Open a command prompt and run the following command on the problem
    machine:

    Net config server

    If the output of 'Server hidden' displays 'Yes' that's the problem. If
    value is 'No" go to step #5.
    5) The machine description cannot be more than 48 characters or else the it
    will not appear in Network Places.
    6) A master browser on that subnet may have recently been turned off or
    re-started. If no master browsers have been turned off or re-started
    recently, go to step #7.
    7) Go to the Local (Subnet) Master Browser and verify if you can see the
    missing computer in it's Network Neighborhood. You determine a Local
    (Subnet) Master Browser by running the command "browstat status" on any
    computer in that subnet. Browstat.exe is a Resource Kit utility. If you
    can find the missing computer in the Network Neighborhood of the Local
    (Subnet) Master Browser, then go to the Domain Master Browser (which should
    be the PDC Emulator in a Windows 2000 or above domain, or the PDC in an NT
    4.0 domain (domainname 1B entry in WINS)), and see if you can find the
    missing computer in it's Network Neighborhood. If you do not see the
    missing computer then the problem is with the sharing of the browse list
    between the Local (Subnet) Master Browser and the Domain Master Browser.
    This can be caused by who has the IsDomainMaster setting in the registry.
    Go to both the Local (Subnet) Master Browser and Domain Master Browser and
    see and compare this registry setting. It exists at:

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters

    Normally, only the Domain Master Browser should be configured for the
    IsDomainMaster setting. Without a PDC or PDCE, browsing is limited to the
    local segment. (Only a PDC or PDCE has the ability to merge browse lists.)

    Any server which can potentially be a Master Browser should have the
    "IsDomainMaster" setting set to TRUE.

    8) Restart the Computer Browser service on the Domain Master Browser (The
    PDC of an NT 4 domain or the PDC Emulator of a Windows 2000 or above
    domain). Although this may not be necessary it can't hurt.
    9) Run the command browstat elect <transport> <domain> on a computer in the
    subnet where browsing is a problem. You can obtain <transport> information
    by running the command browstat status, and <domain> is the NetBIOS name of
    you domain.

    This forces an election in the subnet for a new Master Browser. A new
    Master Browser will, hopefully, have the correct, updated list of NetBIOS
    resources in the domain.

    NOTE: A common end-user workstation can be a Subnet Master Browser and this
    is not necessarily, in and of itself, a problem for domain browsing (esp. in
    situations where there are no servers on that subnet). Most corporate
    environments maintain servers in a common Data Center and therefore there
    will be end-user workstations functioning as Subnet Master Browsers. As
    long as it keeps an updated list all should be fine.

    102878 - Information on Browser Operation:
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=102878

    102878 - Information on Browser Operation:
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=102878

    SRX040902603949
    -----------------------------------
    The first thing I would do is to disable the built in firewalls on the XP
    SP2 computer or modify them so that they allow traffic from your subnet on
    ports 137 UDP,138 UDP,139 TCP, and 445 TCP. If you are protected from the
    internet by a router/firewall I would simply disable the ICF firewall on all
    the computers. Also give some time for the browse list to build and be sure
    to shut down the computers properly. Since you have a server I would also
    configure wins on it and make sure that all computers are wins clients
    including that the server is a wins client to itself.

    By default netbios over tcp/ip should be enabled on all the computers
    [tcp/ip properties/advanced/wins]. If you run Ipconfig /all it will tell you
    ONLY if it is disabled. Running nbtstat -n on each computer should show at
    least three name registries with the server probably showing more and at
    least one computer needs to show that it is a master browser. Personal
    firewalls or other "protection" software may interfere with the browse list
    and often booting into safe mode with networking will bypass such programs.

    11-16-04
    S. Umbach
     
    Todd J Heron, Feb 20, 2005
    #4
  5. How much of this was written by S. Umbach?

     
    Michael Giorgio - MVP, Feb 20, 2005
    #5
  6. Open My Network places on the problem server; does
    it show up in its own list? If you've gone through Todd
    Heron's crockpot of suggestions without success then
    first make sure your router is not using a Netbios helper
    or forwarding broadcasts of any kind, this will cause the
    problem server to register it's name with a remote SMB
    instead of it's local SMB, a sure way to tell is to look
    for 8003/8005 error in system log of the event viewer.
    If all checks out then use Network Monitor on the problem
    server and see exactly where the host name announcement
    packets are going. Most of browse problems occur when
    a client registers it's name with a different SMB (segment
    master browser) than the rest of the network.
     
    Michael Giorgio - MVP, Feb 20, 2005
    #6
  7. Ian

    Todd J Heron Guest

    Michael - he's quoted under the line break "-------------------------------"
    line. My notes are above the SRX number.

    tjh
     
    Todd J Heron, Feb 20, 2005
    #7
  8. Ian

    Todd J Heron Guest

    Michael -

    After a bit of debating about it I feel that I must respond to your comment
    of "If you've gone through Todd Heron's crockpot of suggestions without
    success..."

    I have followed these groups off and on for several years and you like we
    all have seen the classic problem of "missing computer in Network Places but
    can map a drive to it's shares" many, many times. Countless times. There
    have been (almost) equally countless answers to this problem from all over
    the boards and the way I attack these types of multi-faceted problems is to
    build a solutions database, and over a period of time, if the problem is
    complex enough, build a step-by-step method of resolving it in a logical
    order beginning from the easiest to most difficult (or time-consuming) step
    to resolve the problem. While I am proud of my 9-step approach, is still
    incomplete, and certainly can still use improvement in terms of delivery and
    order of steps. I certainly appreciate any positive comments concerning an
    additional step I may have missed, or a re-wording of one which is already
    in there.

    I recently read in this very group itself, someone commenting that Mark
    Minasi once stated even he could not figure out all the browsing problems he
    has ever encountered. I think we can all say that, especially in here, when
    many of the original poster's comments are incomplete or incorrectly worded.
    Thus my "cookbook recipe" (that's what I like to call it) to solve this type
    of browsing problem. And yes, I have taken comments from others here such
    as Steven, Bill Grant, yourself, and have re-worded many previous replies
    correcting for grammatical errors, syntax, context and enhancing with my own
    thoughts. The intent is two-fold, one that it may help the OP, and two,
    that it may help me in the field when I am not near an Internet connection.
    When the point comes that I have re-written and edited something so many
    times that it can no longer be contributed to an individual author, I
    consider the work to be my own. Point is, if you believe that I have
    aggrieved someone's intellectual property of a newsgroup posting, I
    emphatically disagree. Second point is, while I appreciate comments to my
    postings based on technical merits I do not when they are colored with an
    off-handed remark. While you are certainly entitled to do so, this tends to
    confuse the OP who may in turn disregard a post in it's entirety and
    altogether miss a potential solution.

    To clarify further, my original post in this thread was made at 3:16AM, and
    I live on the east coast, USA. I was a bit bleary-eyed. My solutions
    database is based on as I mentioned many different angles and sources. I
    use that solutions database for myself and for the benefit of others here.
    When I quote someone, I try to indicate the source and the date, so that I
    (and myself) can backtrack through Google and re-look up the original
    context of a problem if necessary. I made the mistake of not putting what
    was directly attributable to Steven Umbach in " " quotes, however you can
    clearly see an effort to include his name along with a date. That SRX
    number from Microsoft was a case we opened with when steps 1 -8 did not
    resolve the problem but #9 did. That number should not have been
    broadcasted but since the hour was late I sloppily (and my wife agrees)
    posted that in together with Steven's previous comments. You can also see
    where my # 1 - 9 steps are more broad and encompassing than his. Not to
    take anything away from Steven, he is a great contributor to this group, it
    is just at the time I felt I needed to save that post he made based on what
    I felt was a certain quality I needed to capture in my own answer. To be
    sure, this has been now changed to a URL link to his original comments.
    Most of my attributions to others are in quoted form, with the original
    author's name, but some are simply shorn in better as google URL links,
    especially in the long answers such as this one.

    I have seen you to be quite helpful in these groups over the years,
    often-times sticking with the OP until conclusion of the problem or
    exhaustion of all possible avenues of known solutions. I am not sure if you
    intended slight in the other post in relation to "How much of this was
    written by S. Umbach?" or in this post relating to the "crockpot of
    suggestions without success" remark. I have given you the benefit of the
    doubt and assume that you hadn't, because if you did intend slight, I would
    be very surprised and a bit hurt by them given the degree to which I
    professionally respect and admire you.
     
    Todd J Heron, Feb 20, 2005
    #8
  9. Easy Todd, you read way too much into my response..
    Your crockpot of ideas is quite impressive to say the
    least and hits on almost all of the browse related
    troubleshooting steps.. I meant literally if your
    suggestions didn't fix his problem there are other
    steps.
     
    Michael Giorgio - MVP, Feb 20, 2005
    #9
  10. Thanks Todd, I just wanted to clarify which
    were S. Umbach's comments.
     
    Michael Giorgio - MVP, Feb 20, 2005
    #10
  11. Ian

    Todd J Heron Guest

    I'm sorry Michael! Thanks for the positive feedback. I've been working
    odd-shifts these days which some have said has thrown me into bear-like
    state and sending out emails I've later wanted to "take back" (wife, to name
    one). I've gotta work on that!

    tjh
     
    Todd J Heron, Feb 21, 2005
    #11
  12. No problem at all..
     
    Michael Giorgio - MVP, Feb 21, 2005
    #12
  13. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Hi guys,

    Thanks a lot all of you for great help.
    My issue is that I built a DC4 on subnet1 and I need to back it up on
    backup1 server that on subnet2. But DC4 is not shown in My Network Places on
    backup1 so Backup Exec won't see it.

    I use 9 steps. 1-6 OK. Browstat status on DC4 shows Master browser name is:
    DC4. I tried IsDomainMaster=TRUE even though DC4 is not PDCE.

    I asked our CISCO guy who said that no Netbios helper
    or forwarding broadcasts of any kind set up on routers.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Feb 22, 2005
    #13
  14. Ian

    Bill Grant Guest

    You shouldn't need forwarding on the routers. (In fact it would be a bad
    idea). A segment browser builds the segment browse list by broadcasts on
    each segment. The browsers all register their browser special Netbios names
    with WINS. So the domain master browser can contact each segment browser
    directly to build a complete browse list for the network.
     
    Bill Grant, Feb 22, 2005
    #14
  15. Ian

    Todd J Heron Guest

    Ok, try setting IsDomainMaster=FALSE on DC4 to jiggle the browsing traffic.
     
    Todd J Heron, Feb 22, 2005
    #15
  16. Hello Ian,

    Because DC4 is not registering it's name with the same SMB
    all the other machines on your network it won't show up in
    the list.
    If you open My Network Places on DC4 does it show up in it's own
    list? How many machines show up in the list? DC4 may be trying to
    become the SMB. By default all machines have an IsDomainMaster
    browser setting of false this allows the PDC to assume the role of SMB for
    it's local endpoint. Each subnet has a segment master browser (SMB) which
    gathers the local list and passes back to the domain master browser (DMB).
    Setting the IsDomainMaster to true will cause that paticular machine to
    force a
    browse election in an attempt to become the SMB (segment master browser).
    The PDC is always the Domain Master Browser (DMB) this was set in stone
    before Windows 2000 came along. Now you there is the FSMO role called
    PDC emulator which can be assigned to any DC. It emulates an NT 4.0 PDC
    by registering the domain name 1b unique name for domains. The 1b name
    identifies the DMB as well as the PDC. Having said all of this did you try
    to turn
    off the computer browser service on DC4? Doing so will only prevent the
    machine
    from maintaining the browse and becoming a master browser.
    That's a good thing.
     
    Michael Giorgio - MVP, Feb 23, 2005
    #16
  17. Ian

    Ian Guest

    I just found that all the machines on subnet2 cannot see any one (not just
    DC4) on subnet1 but all the machines on subnet1 can see any one on subnet2.
    Any idea? Thanks.
     
    Ian, Feb 24, 2005
    #17
  18. Ian

    Todd J Heron Guest

    all the machines on subnet1 can see any one on subnet2.

    The subnet2 Master browser is therefore functioning properly, and sharing
    it's subnet browse list with the DMB.
    The problem is with the Master Browser on Subnet1. Michael has already
    touched on this.

    Please make the setting IsDomainMaster=FALSE on DC4 to and then restart DC4.
     
    Todd J Heron, Feb 24, 2005
    #18
  19. You'll need to give more details of your physical setup along
    with your WINS configuration. We are talking about 1 domain?
    What type of router are you using between subnets. Sorry to
    ask so many questions.
     
    Michael Giorgio - MS MVP, Feb 24, 2005
    #19
  20. Ian

    Ian Guest

    I did the setting IsDomainMaster=FALSE on DC4.
    We have multiple domains but we are talking about 1 domain. We are using
    multiple WINS. Cisco router is used.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Feb 24, 2005
    #20
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