WINS server

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by Terry, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. Terry

    Terry Guest

    I need to take WINS off the PDC which is multi-homed and put it onto another
    machine. Can I use XPpro as the OS or do I need another 2003 server?
    Regards
     
    Terry, Nov 30, 2004
    #1
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  2. Or 2000 or NT, even, I think....
    Why does your PDC/DC need to be multihomed, if I may ask? I don't recommend
    this.
     
    Lanwench [MVP - Exchange], Dec 1, 2004
    #2
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  3. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    You need a server class machine -- any (reliable) NT version
    will do however.
     
    Herb Martin, Dec 1, 2004
    #3
  4. Terry

    Terry Guest

    I need a separate subnet for moving large amounts of data which if done on
    the subnet that our Sage users are on will cuase that app to slow down.
    (it's a DOS app) Sometime in the near future I will be able to ditch the DOS
    app for a Windows version and then be able to do something else usefull with
    the network.
    regards


    "Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
     
    Terry, Dec 1, 2004
    #4
  5. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    You still haven't explained why the DC needs to
    be the multi-homed machine instead of an ordinary
    router or other Windows server, or even workstation,
    doing that job.

    --
    Herb Martin

     
    Herb Martin, Dec 1, 2004
    #5
  6. That almost always does not work. The data will not follow the other path.
    The machines will always resolve to only one IP# and that IP# is what
    deteremines the path that is followed no matter how many Nics you put in the
    machine.

    You also don't need a separate subnet to isolate that. Copying files/data
    on a LAN occurs at Layer2, so a switch is all that is needed. The data will
    only pass though the exact ports on the switch the involved machines are
    connected to. If the machines are on the same switch and the switch is
    dedicated to only those machines, then the rest of the LAN will never see
    the traffic. The effect of switches is exactly why packet sniffers don't
    work on a switched LAN unless you use "agents" and rig up monitoring ports
    on the switches.
     
    Phillip Windell, Dec 1, 2004
    #6
  7. Terry

    Terry Guest

    Hi Herb,

    From experience I have determined that a separate NIC and switch removes the
    problem experienced by Sage users when a large amount of data is being moved
    on their subnet, just move it across another subnet instead. Hence the
    reason to have a multi-homed PDC. I still need to be able to connect to any
    other client on either of the subnets which Routing handles brilliantly for
    WinXP clients, but is poor for Win98 and workgroups. There is also a
    Netpilot on subnet 1 which handles all connections to the internet via a
    non-nat router, that with a static route or two does the job.

    However it is not recommended to run WINS in this server scenario. Now I
    have some choices, forget the older Win98 machines and the workgroup knowing
    that they are to be upgraded sometime in the near future, or slap a WINS
    server on the network. I'm just trying to get a handle on the cost and work
    involved to see if it is justified in doing. At this moment I see no reason
    to add a WINS server due to cost even though I have a spare server grade
    machine to hand (ex Novell 6.0).

    So I guess I have my answer thanks to all who posted.

    Regards

     
    Terry, Dec 1, 2004
    #7
  8. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    You made a leap (of logic) there from needing two subnets to the
    PDC needing two NICs.
    Workgroups do not (directly) support multiple subnets.

    You must have at least one domain-NT-class machine on
    each subnet (with same domain name as the workgroup.)

    This machine much end up as master browser for that subnet.
    But nothing you said above forces the machine to be the DC.
     
    Herb Martin, Dec 1, 2004
    #8
  9. Terry

    Terry Guest

    I have one server 2003 as the PDC for domain FLOYD, 2 NICs 192.168.1.1 &
    192.168.2.1, a handfull of Win98 clients on 192.168.1.xxx with an old
    workgroup name of OFFICE but running the AD client, a number of WinXPpro
    clients on 192.168.1.xxx on the FLOYD domain, a WinXPpro client on the FLOYD
    domain sitting at 192.168.2.248. Each server NIC is connected to it's own
    100MB Switch.

    All clients on the .1.xxx can browse each others shares in the FLOYD domain
    and the OFFICE workgroup. They cannot see the .2.248 XP client in the
    Windows Network under the FLOYD domain, but can Start|Run connect to it's
    shares.

    The .2.248 XP client in the Windows Network can see all the FLOYD domain XP
    clients and connect to shares, it can also see the OFFICE workgroup but is
    denied access to browse it. It can however connect to Win98 client shares
    using Start|Run.

    So how do I get to have full browsing, at least between all the XP clients
    on .1.xxx and .2.xxx?

    Assuming I have a spare WinXPpro machine or two to use as master browsers,
    could I achieve the following? and are you saying that the domain name on
    these machines == workgroup name on Win98 clients?
    Regards
    Terry

     
    Terry, Dec 2, 2004
    #9
  10. 1. Get rid of the workgroup "OFFICE" and make the workgroup name of those
    machines the same as the Domain name "FLOYD", and better yet, make them
    actually log into the FLOYD domain..

    2. Get rid of the second subnet and second Nic. It isn't doing what you
    think it is,..probably never will,...and is the "root" of most of your
    problems.

    I mean no offense, but I don't think anyone here wants to spend days and
    days on something that is being done fundementally wrong and trying to come
    up with some convoluted way to make the "wrong way" somehow "kinda-sorta"
    work right.
     
    Phillip Windell, Dec 2, 2004
    #10
  11. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    It's a DC (there are no PDC or BDC for Win2000+ DCs)
    Unless you have a strong reason, Phillip is correct that
    you should get rid of the OFFICE domain (that is if you
    wish browsing to work among both sets of machines.)

    Hopefully you Win2003 domain is ONLY named FLOYD
    in NetBIOS but has a name like FLOYD.com, or .local in
    DNS -- it is BAD to have an AD domain that has a ONE
    TAG name. (The corresponding NetBIOS name will always
    be 1-tag -- that is just NetBIOS.)
    Use something else (besides the DC) for the router OR
    follow Phillip's advice to consolidate to one network and
    you won't need the WINS server.

    Also, you need all machines to have the same Workgroup name
    as the domain name.
    Yes. If you want browsing to work fully among them.

    This is the main PURPOSE of a Workgroup name: to make
    browsing work for those machines that will share resources.


    --
    Herb Martin

     
    Herb Martin, Dec 2, 2004
    #11
  12. Terry

    Terry Guest

    Thanks for confirmation Herb. I'll make the changes and see what happens
    when everything has refreshed and settled down.
    Regards
    Terry

     
    Terry, Dec 3, 2004
    #12
  13. Terry

    Terry Guest

    Hi Herb,

    Changed workgroup to be same as domain name, all machines (Win98 & XP)
    appear in Network Places on this machine at .2.248. However machines on the
    ..1.1 network cannot see machines on the .2.1 network, so it appears to be a
    one way street at the moment.
    Regards

     
    Terry, Dec 10, 2004
    #13
  14. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    [We must assume that "cannot see" means cannot browse
    in Explorer or Network places.]

    That is a feature of Workgroups (in general).

    An IP network requires WINS Server (practically) for
    browsing to work across the subnets.

    BUT, workgroups do not directly support browsing
    across subnets either, so there must be a domain with
    a Domain Master Browser (PDC or the Emulator in
    Win2000+) for the exchange of browse lists to work.

    On each subnet, the master browser would need to be
    a domain machine probably.

    --
    Herb Martin

     
    Herb Martin, Dec 10, 2004
    #14
  15. Terry

    Terry Guest

    Thanks Herb,

    Could I use an XPpro machine as the master browser on the "second" subnet?
    Regards

     
    Terry, Dec 13, 2004
    #15
  16. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    Yes, you can use ANY "NT-class" machine, server or workstation.

    You could use a Win 3.1 (WFW) EXCEPT that they don't
    work with the Domain Master Browser so they only work
    as the local subnet browser.

    --
    Herb Martin

     
    Herb Martin, Dec 13, 2004
    #16
  17. Terry

    Terry Guest

    Thanks Herb,
    Any articles for me to take a look at re config of a WinXPpro. I have done
    the reg hack to set it as master browser, but not getting the results,
    anything else?
    Regards

     
    Terry, Dec 13, 2004
    #17
  18. Terry

    Herb Martin Guest

    You don't need to hack XP to make it a master browser;
    you would have to hack it to STOP it from doing that (if
    it won the election.)

    Generally you do not want to FORCE it to be the preferred
    master -- let the election do that.

    These need to be domain machiens -- in fact if you have
    non domain, e.g, workgroup, XP, this would be a reason
    for telling that machine NOT to be Master Browser.

    You need all machines to register with the same WINS
    server (set or same database.)

    --
    Herb Martin

     
    Herb Martin, Dec 13, 2004
    #18
  19. Terry

    Terry Guest

    Thanks Herb,
    I'll have another look at the XP config.
    Regards

     
    Terry, Dec 14, 2004
    #19
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