XP "genuine advantage" Big Brother nightmares

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by xp ?, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. xp ?

    SMiano Guest

    Ok... Here's the Rub:

    "By way of background, my computer is one I bought from a friend, that I
    have since upgraded with a new motherboard, CPU, second hard drive for
    data, and new graphics card."

    I am assuming the computer he sold you had an OEM license on it. If so, that
    license is tied to the motherboard. If you replace the motherboard, you are
    required to purchase a new license. I know that sounds daft, and I'm not
    saying I agree with that, but that is straight from the mouth of Microsoft
    Licensing. The only exception, as they told me, was if the manufacturer
    replaced the motherboard under warranty with the same or similar board.

    This is, of course, a fairly grey area, and questionably enforceable, but
    according to MS Licensing, that's the way it is.
    SMiano, Jun 18, 2006
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  2. xp ?

    kurttrail Guest

    Please quote the OEM EULA where the license is tied specifically to the

    That will be a very hard task, since the OEM EULA doens't mention the
    word MOTHERBOAD at all.

    Kurt Kirsch
    Self-anointed Moderator
    "It'll soon shake your Windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin'."
    kurttrail, Jun 18, 2006
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  3. xp ?

    SMiano Guest

    My apologies if I said something that may have been misconstrued. At no point
    did I make claim to anything in any EULA witnessed by me. I merely conveyed
    what I was told by more than one Microsoft Licensing Representatives. I am
    not a Microsoft employee, Lawyer, or paid sponsor. I believe I said OEM
    Licensing told me that, not the EULA.

    I don't make the rule, nor judgement on how someone may percieve the rules.
    I am merely pointing out my anecdotal experience, in an effort to shed light
    on a suspect situation. If the gentleman above actually DOES have a
    legitimate copy of windows, then Microsoft may and probably will assist him
    in fixing his issue. If it's pirated, then that's the reality he has to deal

    As has been mentioned elsewhere a ton of people are getting alse positives,
    and it is supremely annoying, but it's not the end of the world. If the
    software is legitimate, then the user is free to pursue the myriad paths to a
    valid solution. If the software is pirated, then... well... it's pirated, and
    the trap set by Microsoft just worked.
    SMiano, Jun 18, 2006
  4. xp ?

    DanS Guest

    Honestly, I think that all the MVP's have a varying degree of knowledge.

    Though, some are prone to just spitting forth the scritpted M$ BS that they
    would like us to come to believe wholesale.
    DanS, Jun 18, 2006
  5. To get MVP it is necessary to sign an NDA, limiting what may be disclosed.
    Michael Jennings, Jun 18, 2006
  6. It might be a good idea to read what you agreed to.
    But that's not really the issue.

    The issue is:
    Why should a legitimate user have to stand on his head because the
    software doesn't work correctly.

    And why should any of us have to prove to Microsoft daily (now
    fortnightly) that our software is "genuine"?

    And why the need for all the extra information that has nothing to do
    with whether the software is "genuine"?
    So if you know that one of 10 men is guilty, it's okay to shoot them

    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Insisting on perfect safety is for people
    without the balls to live in the real world.
    Mary Shafer Iliff
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Jun 18, 2006
  7. xp ?

    Alias Guest

    That explains a lot.

    Alias, Jun 19, 2006
  8. Actually, I don't think it really explains much at all.

    Doesn't an Non-Disclosure Agreement cover only proprietary information?

    I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work.

    So the implication is that to continue to receive the award, MVPs need
    to be on their Sunday-best behavior. It's toe the line or lose the
    perks. I'm not sure I'd give up the ability to say what I think or to
    use my own independently acquired knowledge merely for the dollar value
    and arguable prestige of an MVP award.

    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Insisting on perfect safety is for people
    without the balls to live in the real world.
    Mary Shafer Iliff
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Jun 19, 2006

  9. You are correct. There are a few such things we can't talk about, but not

    Not at all true. Other than not revealing proprietary information, there is
    no line to which MVPs are held. Nobody tells us what to say, and MVPs are
    free to express their own opinion on anything. For example, I prefer
    WordPerfect to Word and I say it in the newsgroups all the time.

    We don't.

    There is no monetary remuneration, although there is some software given to
    MVPs. If you were to add up the dollar value of what we get and compare to
    the number of hours spent each year, we work for peanuts. I, like the rest
    of the MVPs, do what we do because we like to help people, not for any
    dollar value.
    Ken Blake, MVP, Jun 19, 2006
  10. Well, then that negates everything else I wrote.
    I would've snipped this, but I think it is a point well worth leaving
    It wasn't intended as an insult, although I suppose it came out that
    way, and I sincerely apologize.

    My point was that for what you guys get--and I am aware it's not money,
    but services and software which have a tangible value--it's not worth
    being gagged.

    Mr. Jennings implied, however, that the reason none of the MVPs are
    telling people how to turn off WGA is that they are not permitted to do
    so because of an NDA, and it was to that I responded.

    I know that some of you work very hard and give a lot of time to these
    groups, and I would not intentionally demean that effort. (There are
    others I wouldn't give a dime for, but that's another story.) Still and
    all, it was a very disconcerting idea.

    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Insisting on perfect safety is for people
    without the balls to live in the real world.
    Mary Shafer Iliff
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Jun 19, 2006
  11. xp ?

    Rick Rogers Guest


    Not only are MVP's not "gagged", in fact they are a most vocal group - and
    in particular about many of the same issues debated here and elsewhere.
    Arguing them here serves little value, but making the point with the
    decision makers sometimes helps. I've personally been a part of some rather
    vitrolent sessions where many (over 700) MVP's told certain MS executives
    exactly what stunk (and trust me, I'm being rather nice in my choice of

    As you surmised, the NDA is simply an agreement to not disclose certain
    proprietary information disclosed to us. In no way should it be construed to
    bind anyone accepting the award to not vocalize their personal opinions. I
    certainly don't, nor do those that I associate with. MS only asks that those
    in the progam act the same as would be expected of anyone asking for
    assistance in a support group.

    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
    Rick Rogers, Jun 19, 2006
  12. <laughing> If someone asked me to make a list of the non-gaggable, you
    would be near the top, Mr. Rogers.

    And I'm glad to know that even if many of you do not voice it here, you
    are speaking up where it counts.

    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Insisting on perfect safety is for people
    without the balls to live in the real world.
    Mary Shafer Iliff
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Jun 19, 2006
  13. Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

    Not only are MVPs allowed to express their opinions - many of us *have*
    posted the ways to turn off the WGA several times.. or at least links to it.
    It's not like that information is hidden at all.. I figure if it is able to
    be found in a Google Search - it's fair game. If someone is not as adept as
    I may have become at such searches - then sometimes I provide said link for

    I know I have - at least - posted a link several times in these newgroups
    that has at least 15 different methods one can try to "counter" WGA.. The
    link below:


    So Mr. Jennings - if such a thing was implied - was blatantly incorrect and
    a Google Groups search would show that.
    Shenan Stanley, Jun 19, 2006

  14. No, no apology necessary. I didn't take it as an insult, but I just wanted
    to clarify the situation.

    MVPs are never not "not permitted" to do anything except to not reveal
    confidential information that is privy to us as MVPs, and there's not a
    whole lot of that. There is nothing that I have ever been explicitly told
    can't be told to others, except an occasional piece of information that I
    know a few days before official release and won't be released publicly for a
    short while. In fact, there's very little I know that everyone doesn't know.
    If you think Microsoft tells us a lot, you'd probably be very surprised at
    how little it actually is.

    As far as how to turn off WGA, I haven't posted any information about how to
    turn it off simply because I don't know much about it. No MVP knows
    everything, and we all have our areas of specialization. I personally
    haven't run into problems with WGA, know little about it, and don't know how
    to turn it off. And nobody at Microsoft has ever even suggested to me that I
    be mute on this subject. And for the record, despite my not knowing a whole
    lot about it, from what I do know, I'm far from crazy about the whole idea
    of WGA.

    Thank you. Such kind words are always appreciated.
    Ken Blake, MVP, Jun 19, 2006
  15. Thanks for the smidgen of doubt. Robin has been stating that KB905474
    can not be uninstalled. That is a correct statement politically, but not factually.

    Freudi has a small program to get rid of Notifications, aber selbst erstellten
    Uninstaller KB905474-Uninstaller.exe requires trust if the bare download
    link is posted, or a little German if the page with the link to it is posted:

    The problem is that KB905474 is kind of voluntary-mandatory, and since
    some MVPs are speaking like propagandists, I'm not sure where the lines
    are drawn with respect to advice to people who want to uninstall it.

    I had problems answering the kids who wanted to know how to get rid
    of the parental controls in IE, also - don't spill the beans vs. here's how.
    Michael Jennings, Jun 19, 2006
  16. Jennings is very suspicious and reads update EULAs before installing
    strange updates. He regards Microsoft as having abused the trust users
    placed in it. He likes to read Philip K. Dick. Be careful. Watch out.
    If you don't think they're out to get you, you're living in a fantasy.
    Michael Jennings, Jun 19, 2006
  17. FWIW, I'm *no* MVP.
    And yes, you can simply unpack "my" KB905474-uninstaller.exe e.g.
    using WinRAR and have a look into the batch files. It's not more
    or lese than this.

    But we may have to differentiate the WGA program as such and the
    "famous" WGA Notification tool. The latter is the one not only I'm
    critisizing, especially how that "tool" has been and is introduced
    by MS. Forcing a "test" tool as an critical update is far, far away
    from "trustworthy computing" - despite from the problems users have
    in installing that (updated) tool (almost not be aware of what they
    are really trying to install).

    I really urge you and everyone else who feels to comment on the WGA
    porgram as such and especially KB905474 to post into the WGA web
    forums (http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/).


    P.S.: Followup to microsoft.public.windowsupdate set. Followups to
    this posting will show up in the Windows Update newsgroup only.
    Ottmar Freudenberger, Jun 19, 2006
  18. Totally agreed.

    I never paid much attention to WGA until May 31 when I downloaded the
    Notification tool and thereafter noticed my computer was phoning home to
    Microsoft without any input from me.

    It's odd. I blocked it with my firewall, and then I disabled it using
    HijackThis. Thereafter I received a notification at WU that the file is
    downloaded, but not installed. I chose to hide it, and although I get
    the stock message that I'm missing an update and my computer might be at
    risk, I have not been refused any other updates that I know of.

    I have not done anything to disable the other WGA downloads, because
    unlike this one, I don't consider them spyware.

    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Insisting on perfect safety is for people
    without the balls to live in the real world.
    Mary Shafer Iliff
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Jun 19, 2006
  19. I read all my EULAs too, Mr. Jennings. In the case of WGA, however, I
    was not presented with a EULA to read.
    This, i think is true.
    I was reading him long before his work made it to the big screen, and...
    ....I'm not buying it.

    I don't really care so much what Microsoft--or anyone--knows about me,
    because my life just isn't so exciting as to be a secret. I suppose if I
    were a criminal or employed by the CIA, I would be a bit more worried,
    but I'm neither, so it doesn't matter.

    The point of all this--to me--is that in defiance of its own definition
    of spyware, i.e.:


    ....Microsoft tried to slip one by me. I have complained about this here
    in these groups and in the WGA web forum, but my most satisfying moment
    was when I submitted wgatray.exe to the Windows Defender team as a false


    I realize it didn't do anything, but it felt good.

    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Insisting on perfect safety is for people
    without the balls to live in the real world.
    Mary Shafer Iliff
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Jun 19, 2006
  20. xp ?

    Lem Guest

    Rhonda --
    FWIW, KB905474 will "un-hide" each time MS posts a new and improved
    version of the WGA Notification tool.
    Lem, Jun 19, 2006
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