XP on extended partition

I've installed XP Pro x64 on an extended partition with no problems, even
though it said it had to use a primary partition to keep the NT*.* files and
boot.ini. No problem with that.

When installing Windows 7, I happened to delete the exact partition
mentioned above to install win7 on it. Well, Windows 7 boot menu doesn't
even popup and all the boot settings for XP is gone even though XP's
partition is still there and I can even access it from windows 7.

I am assuming I cannot run XP's fixmbr/fixboot because the best chances are
it will NOT recognize win7 boot systems and will change the mbr to point it
to XP only. On the other hand, I cannot run win7's fix either because it
won't even recognize my current XP's partition as a bootable.

Ok, now things start to get interesting ... I also happen to have linux
ubuntu installed here on the same HD and grub is my primary boot loader. So,
is there any way on earth I could get XP's boot files put in a place where
at last Windows7 will read from it and automaticly add it to its boot menu?
I think grub is pretty flexible and it can boot windows 7 like a charm, but
I cannot get it to boot into XP's extended partition because apparently
NTLDR won't be happy to be placed in it.

By the way, I also tried to put NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI in win7's
primary partition's root and point grub to this NTLDR file, but no success.
So, is there any other file that I should put in there? Does it have to be
placed in some sort of boot sector of the partition or something?

Just a tip ... Windows XP was running happily from this extended partition
before I messed up and deleted the primary partition it had its boot files
on.

Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

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Carlos

 

I have a 1Tb drive partitioned into four pieces. WinXP Pro is on the active,
primary partition; in the extended partition I have Win7 32-bit, Win7
64-bit, and Win XP Pro x64. So, where did you hear about XP Pro x64 only
going on a primary partiton? Somebody, obviously ahs no idea.

 

Hi, TMA.

It has been YEARS - pre-WinXP - since I installed Windows into a primary
partition. I've been using logical drive in extended partitions for a
decade or so.

But, remember, Windows always installs as TWO pieces. The large piece can
go into any volume - primary partition or logical drive - on any internal
HDD in your computer. But the small piece MUST go into the System
Partition, which MUST be a primary partition and marked Active (bootable) -
and it must be on the HDD currently designated in the BIOS as the boot
device. The "small piece" consists only of the few startup files: NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini for Win2K/XP; bootmgr and the \Boot folder for
Vista/Win7. Note that the \Boot folder is NOT the "boot folder". :>{

Note the significant difference between "boot volume", which is whichever
primary partition or logical drive holds the currently-running "boot
folder" - which is named \Windows by default and must be in the Root of the
boot volume. The "boot device" is whichever HDD is set in the BIOS as the
one to be used to start the computer.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

 

Sorry for the long time to answer, Jerry. I actually had to re-install my
whole system after my main partition got corrupted with so many tries to
restore my boot sectors

OK. I never said XP wouldn't go from an extended partition. In fact, I had
it here. The problem was that when I was installing XP on an extended
partition. It asked me for a valid NTFS/FAT primary partition in order to
install its boot files and further on I deleted this primary NTFS to install
Windows 7. After that XP wouldn't boot anymore. I tried, as a last resource,
running XP install from CD and did "fixboot" and that screwed my partition
with Windows 7 because XP boot sectors wasn't there anymore.

Anyway, it's been years I don't use XP as my primary OS anymore, but I like
to have it installed for emergency times. I managed to reinstall it on my
second drive in a primary partition now. I believe it's safer this way
because if one my drives fail, I'll be able to boot XP from the other one.

 

Thanks for the detailed info, R.C.
In fact I was suspicious XP worked that way when it asked me for a primary
partition when I got it installed. The thing is .... the NTFS primary I
assigned for its boot files was deleted afterwards and not even the fixboot
would get it back together.
If there was a way to fix that from XP install CD I think I missed it.
Anyway, I spent sometime rebuilding my system and now everything seems to be
working fine. Just fine tuning my OSes now.

 

I'll give it a try, mite come in handy someday.
Thx for the tip.

 

Hi, TMA.

I'm glad you got it worked out. ;<)

The inconsistent, ambiguous, and counterintuitive uses of the word "boot"
has probably caused more confusion and angst among dual-booters (there's
that word again) than almost anything else. Except the equally-confusing
uses of the words "system" and "drive". :>(

Probably the next-most confusion is caused by failure to clearly spell out
the two-part installation. Few users understand that, even if they
"install" Vista on Drive D: on their second HDD, that small but critical
part will still be installed on Drive C:, the first partition on their first
HDD.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

 

yes there is but it is tricky and confusing to get at: windows repair but
not the first windows repair option

 

?????

 

You must be talking about the MBR. This is where the BIOS pass on the
"power" after checking all the devices. It has to be the very first portion
of whatever drive is set to be the first one. After that, it can forward
start up commands to whatever partition in the disk.

In my case, I'm using open source GRUB, but it could be any other boot
loader in the market. It can actually boot XP in an extended partition
without the need to occupy both the MBR AND another primary NTFS partition.

And here goes my piece of advice: built-in fixboot command in XP install CD
may corrupt other partitions. Specially if this other partition has a newer
OS. That's exactly what I believe happened to me.

 

Yes, but since you are relying on GRUB, I would be cautious about this. I
have done a lot of dual-booting with Linux in my day, but I stopped when
Vista arrived. There are a few confusing aspects between them that I am not
so sure wouldn't bring up major discussions with my bone marrow, which has a
tendency to win in the end and makes me do something mindlessly stupid.

Previously, I have attempted to do rescue operations as seen from the GRUB
viewpoint, but after Vista I am not so sure any longer about the
implications of doing it that way.

If you feel you have the Vista boot process in clear view and mind, I think
you might use Windows tools for information and something, like perhaps
GPARTED, or SystemRescueCD for doing the actual work. But tread with care! I
have tried to keep my dual-boot partitions at distinct and varying sizes,
such that I could easily identify which was what.

When first you boot the Windows Install disk the first mention of 'repair'
brings you to the repair or Rescue Console, the one where you have FIXBOOT
and FIXMBR, but if you go on and - as if attempting to install - the routine
will find an installation in place already, and will ask you if you want to
repair that one or make a clean installation. The repair option will
re-install the OS without touching your personal files or any data, BUT it
will also wipe out the GRUB boot configuration, so as always, be careful and
keep informed and know what it is you are trying to do.

Today I am dual-booting between Windows OS's and keep my Linux(s) on
separate machinery.


Tony. . .

 

No, he means that the files needed to start loading the operating system
have to reside on a primary active partition.

For Windows XP the files NTDETECT.COM, ntldr and boot.ini *must* reside
in the root folder of a primary active partition. For Vista the bootmgr
file *must* reside in the root folder of the active partition.

John

 

Hi, John.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant!

I've never tried Linux or any other version of Unix, so I know nothing of
things like GRUB, which TMA mentions. But I've been multi-booting many
versions of Win9x/2K/XP/Vista/7 for a decade or more and have had many
"opportunities" to dig into how the Microsoft dual-boot system works.

In brief, the startup progression begins with the BIOS, then the MBR, then
the boot sector, and then - depending on what is in the boot sector - either
NTLDR or bootmgr. (And, maybe, boot sector to bootmgr to NTLDR.)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

 

I haven't played too much with GRUB/LILO multi-boot with Windows.

It goes like this:

The BIOS passes the boot process to the Master Boot Record which in turn
passes it to the boot sector of the active partition which in turn
passes it to the operating system loader. The partition boot sector has
code that identifies to boot loader and its location on the partition,
in the case of NT operating system it passes it to ntldr or bootmgr
depending on the Windows version being used. When using third party
boot managers the boot sector passes the boot process to the appropriate
boot loader. Quite possibly Grub/Lilo or other third party boot
managers might be able to invoke the NT loader in a logical drive but
I'm not sure how well (or not) the NT loader would work if it isn't on
the active partition.

John

 

- - -

- - -
Personally, I am very much impressed by GRUB - its design, stability,
configurability and functionality.

Here's for the curious:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html



Tony. . .